Page 2 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

17 Dec 2010, 7:31 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
But we'd have ask him.


I purposely left it a statement in order to facilitate thinking since almost everyone here is contrary in nature.


Lol!



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

17 Dec 2010, 9:58 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If a person is biased about something and says something in favor of it, then this person's statement is automatically wrong.


Suppose he was objectively right for being biased in favor of whatever....?

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

17 Dec 2010, 10:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If a person is biased about something and says something in favor of it, then this person's statement is automatically wrong.


Suppose he was objectively right for being biased in favor of whatever....?

ruveyn


Then he'd be objectively right, requiring his opposition to resort to character assassination in order to attempt to discredit him.



visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

29 Dec 2010, 1:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If a person is biased about something and says something in favor of it, then this person's statement is automatically wrong.


Suppose he was objectively right for being biased in favor of whatever....?

ruveyn


The ends do not justify the means. A decision reached by a flawed process is inherently flawed.

In administrative law, if a tribunal gives a person subject to the tribunal to have a reasonable apprehension of bias, then that suffices to compel the replacement of the tribunal. Even if the tribunal arrived at an otherwise sound decision, the failure of procedural fairness is fatal to the decision.

Now, obviously the standards of public law do not necessarily apply to other fora, but if we are to suggest that a person is, "objectively right," then we must examine the issue free from that person's bias. Which rather reinforces the idea that bias is fatal to objective decision making.


_________________
--James


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

29 Dec 2010, 4:30 pm

visagrunt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If a person is biased about something and says something in favor of it, then this person's statement is automatically wrong.


Suppose he was objectively right for being biased in favor of whatever....?

ruveyn


The ends do not justify the means. A decision reached by a flawed process is inherently flawed.



If the ends be just than any means are permissible. Or even if they are not permissible once the end is reached the argument is over. Morality (which is what you are invoking) is opinion, not fax. Morality is doxa, not logos. Morality is someone's opinion on what is right or wrong. And we all know what opinions are. Opinions are like the rectum. Everybody has at least one.

Facts and brute force rule. Opinions are dreck.

ruveyn



visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

29 Dec 2010, 5:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:
If the ends be just than any means are permissible. Or even if they are not permissible once the end is reached the argument is over.


But if the means are unfair, the end cannot ever be just, because justice will not be seen to have been done.

Quote:
Morality (which is what you are invoking) is opinion, not fax. Morality is doxa, not logos. Morality is someone's opinion on what is right or wrong. And we all know what opinions are. Opinions are like the rectum. Everybody has at least one.

Facts and brute force rule. Opinions are dreck.

ruveyn


I have invoked nothing of the sort. My analogy is drawn from law, which is, if anything, an entirely amoral creation.

I agree that morality is inherently personal, and for precisely that reason I strive never to seek to impose my morality on any other individual.

However, ethics and law give rise to principles of general application, of which audi alteram partem is but one.


_________________
--James