Was Adam really the first man, according to the Bible?

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ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 5:21 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
MasterJedi wrote:
you guys are a hoot, you know it?

Do you know what happens to the gene pool after repeated inbreeding? Think Alabama.


You have any idea how offensive this is? Regardless of the content of the previous posts, your contempt nullifies any self assessment equating your thoughts with rationality.


Offense is Offensive only to those Offended.

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Awesomelyglorious
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12 Jan 2011, 7:50 am

Look, I think the Bible suggests that Adam really was the first man. I think Adam is supposed to, in some sense, but the father of the human race, in order for Original Sin to apply to all those folks. I think that Genesis can be seen allegorically, however, I think that this interpretive path is kind of cut off by the reading of Genesis given by the New Testament, as it does tend to suggest that Adam is real, that he is the first man, and ties Adam back to Jesus. I am not a scholar on the NT though, so that can create some difficulty, but it is a common evangelical claim that without Adam, the atonement of Christ makes no sense.



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12 Jan 2011, 9:27 am

Adam was an ancestor of Noah. All other humans were killed in the flood. Ergo, the taint of original sin whether or not Adam was the first man.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 10:03 am

pandabear wrote:
Adam was an ancestor of Noah. All other humans wereT killed in the flood. Ergo, the taint of original sin whether or not Adam was the first man.


There never was a World Wide Flood.

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pandabear
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12 Jan 2011, 10:03 am

ruveyn wrote:
pandabear wrote:

Subsequently, in Genesis 2, God creates a man (Adam) out of some soil in the ground, and places him in the Garden of Eden to guard it and cultivate it. Now, who would he be guarding the Garden from? The people created in Genesis 1?



The Hebrew root SHMR (pronounced shamar, infinitive lishmur) means both to guard and to keep. Again you are running into a sh*tty English translation of the Hebrew. The TNKH can only be read properly in Hebrew and Aramaic which are the languages in which it was written.

Do not take any English translation of the Hebrew scriptures seriously.

ruveyn


Well, it could be that Adam's job entailed shooing the dinosaurs away from the garden.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 10:05 am

pandabear wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
pandabear wrote:

Subsequently, in Genesis 2, God creates a man (Adam) out of some soil in the ground, and places him in the Garden of Eden to guard it and cultivate it. Now, who would he be guarding the Garden from? The people created in Genesis 1?



Well, it could be that Adam's job entailed shooing the dinosaurs away from the garden.



The last dino died 60 million years before primates. Only their latter day descendant, the birds, made it.

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12 Jan 2011, 10:29 am

ruveyn wrote:

The last dino died 60 million years before primates. Only their latter day descendant, the birds, made it.

ruveyn


You're working from *gasp* biology texts, and I am working from Genesis, the contents of which would suggest that dinosaurs (if they existed at all) coexisted with people until the Great Flood.

In Genesis 1, it says

Quote:
The God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us"....So God created human beings, making them to be like himself. He created them male and female, blessed them, and said, "Have many children, so that your descendents will live all over the earth and bring it under their control."


These original people were uncorrupted by original sin, and must certainly have remained naked as they spread all over the world. And, god said "we" and "us", so the people must have looked like God and the angels, who must also exist in male and female forms, and who must also be naked.

In Genesis 2, it says

Quote:
Then the Lord God took some soil from the ground and formed a man out of it; he breathed life-giving breath into his nostrils and the man began to live.


Genesis 2 doesn't say that this was the first man, only that God created a man and set him to work in his garden.



pgd
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12 Jan 2011, 10:36 am

Was Adam really the first man, according to the Bible? - Maybe the first man was God, not Adam. After all, God was the (male) landlord of the Garden of Paradise.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 11:25 am

pandabear wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

The last dino died 60 million years before primates. Only their latter day descendant, the birds, made it.

ruveyn


You're working from *gasp* biology texts, and I am working from Genesis, the contents of which would suggest that dinosaurs (if they existed at all) coexisted with people until the Great Flood.



*gasp*. The Bible is fiction and most of it not all that good.

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ikorack
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12 Jan 2011, 11:34 am

ruveyn wrote:
pandabear wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

The last dino died 60 million years before primates. Only their latter day descendant, the birds, made it.

ruveyn


You're working from *gasp* biology texts, and I am working from Genesis, the contents of which would suggest that dinosaurs (if they existed at all) coexisted with people until the Great Flood.



*gasp*. The Bible is fiction and most of it not all that good.

ruveyn


What? I thought it was pretty entertaining.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 11:45 am

ikorack wrote:

What? I thought it was pretty entertaining.


Tolkein's stuff is better written.

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12 Jan 2011, 12:09 pm

Yeah but he has a few more years of civilization to help him.



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12 Jan 2011, 12:20 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
you guys are a hoot, you know it?

Do you know what happens to the gene pool after repeated inbreeding? Think Alabama.


Actually, early on the gene pool was very clean. The human race was able to withstand inbreeding until around the time of the flood. There are theories that the atmosphere of the earth was radically different, contributing to the extremely long lifespans (1000+ years) of those before the flood. Had the earth been that pristine, and the gene pool too, it would take several generations before significant degerative properties would be discovered. Nowadays, specific family lines (alabama) are prone to inbreeding because of the lack of "new people" in the mix.

I theorize that to have the healthiest children, you need to find the person most genetically distant from you. for example: As an american, i would need to find a native aborigine from australia, whose ancestors never had contact with the English.


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12 Jan 2011, 12:22 pm

It helped that Tolkien was the only one writing Tolkien - and even then, the tone of The Hobbit doesn't match the tone of The Lord of the Rings, which in turn isn't written in the same fashion as The Silmarillion or Farmer Giles of Ham. The Torah (and its later spinoffs, the Bible and the Qu'ran) started off as oral tradition, handed down without a system of writing for generations. It is speculated that the first five books of the Torah and the Bible, known as the Pentateuch, were in fact first written down by Moses, which may account for his being such a Mary Sue figure. However, they were later translated and retranslated and reretranslated, to the point where any historical facts have been completely obscured by later authors' own sociopolitical agendas.

Later books had many other authors - who may or may not have been "sustained by divine revelation", but who were in the final analysis human, and thus prone to error and exaggeration...

(Incidentally, it is my understanding that YHVH's use of the first person plural when referring to Himself was introduced during European translations, and may have been an example of the "Royal We".)

EDIT: Chadmaster, that's not "a theory", unless you can posit some mechanism by which a differing atmosphere could possibly extend life; that's an example of what TVTropes.org refers to as A Wizard Did It. No logical explanation, just "He made it that way!" Which is an argument that completely rejects logic and science, and denies that it is even possible to ever understand what's going on. (And that leads into the question, if the Lord never intended for us to use these huge brains to figure out the world, why did He give them to us? Are we now to accuse the Almighty of incompetence in our design?)


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ruveyn
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12 Jan 2011, 1:45 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
It helped that Tolkien was the only one writing Tolkien - and even then, the tone of The Hobbit doesn't match the tone of The Lord of the Rings, which in turn isn't written in the same fashion as The Silmarillion or Farmer Giles of Ham. The Torah (and its later spinoffs, the Bible and the Qu'ran) started off as oral tradition, handed down without a system of writing for generations. It is speculated that the first five books of the Torah and the Bible, known as the Pentateuch, were in fact first written down by Moses, which may account for his being such a Mary Sue figure. However, they were later translated and retranslated and reretranslated, to the point where any historical facts have been completely obscured by later authors' own sociopolitical agendas.

Later books had many other authors - who may or may not have been "sustained by divine revelation", but who were in the final analysis human, and thus prone to error and exaggeration...



I was thinking of the Silmarilion which is a better creation story than in Genesis. And more musical too.

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12 Jan 2011, 4:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Bible is literal nonsense. It is literature but it should not be taken literally.

ruveyn


QFT.


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