Vatican warned Irish bishops not to report abuse
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe the Vatican is more interested in keeping up the sagging numbers of priests, than with punishing offenders, which might include expulsion from the priesthood. Even if that means protecting pedophiles.
Plus, pedophilia is the dirty little secret Rome tried kept swept under the carpet, as the allegedly holy state of chastity might be perceived as a contributing factor to the crime. Or at least that is the perception of many.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Plus, pedophilia is the dirty little secret Rome tried kept swept under the carpet, as the allegedly holy state of chastity might be perceived as a contributing factor to the crime. Or at least that is the perception of many.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well, it could be argued that the Pope had no knowledge of this, because Parkinsons would kind of make it hard to type or write a letter.
Natty_Boh wrote:
"no mandatory reporting" is not the same as "no reporting",
It, at least, increases the tolerance of no reporting.
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skafather84 wrote:
Natty_Boh wrote:
"no mandatory reporting" is not the same as "no reporting",
It, at least, increases the tolerance of no reporting.
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
Sometimes children can associate what happened to them with an individual that happens to be innocent of the crime and they are subconsciously covering up the fact it is a family member.
It's kind of a sticky situation, they weren't saying not to report it if they knew the priest was abusing children, but they weren't saying report every rumor even when said priest was in a seperate country and couldn't possibly have been there when the incident supposedly happened.
Inuyasha wrote:
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
You NEVER EVER discourage the reporting of such things. Even if the child is lying, that's to be dealt with AFTER.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Kraichgauer
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Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe the Vatican is more interested in keeping up the sagging numbers of priests, than with punishing offenders, which might include expulsion from the priesthood. Even if that means protecting pedophiles.
Plus, pedophilia is the dirty little secret Rome tried kept swept under the carpet, as the allegedly holy state of chastity might be perceived as a contributing factor to the crime. Or at least that is the perception of many.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Plus, pedophilia is the dirty little secret Rome tried kept swept under the carpet, as the allegedly holy state of chastity might be perceived as a contributing factor to the crime. Or at least that is the perception of many.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well, it could be argued that the Pope had no knowledge of this, because Parkinsons would kind of make it hard to type or write a letter.
Parkinson's or not, the pope would need only watch CNN to know about the growing storm of charges, not only in Ireland, but everywhere.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
You NEVER EVER discourage the reporting of such things. Even if the child is lying, that's to be dealt with AFTER.
I'm not saying you discourage the reporting, however you don't need it to be a three ring circus either. First thing if there is a report of this kind of abuse it should be turned over to authorities, not turned over to the media to blare all over the place because it doesn't help the child, if the priest is innocent you've pretty much ruined his life too.
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
You NEVER EVER discourage the reporting of such things. Even if the child is lying, that's to be dealt with AFTER.
Trail by Press is not a quest for justice.
Alleged crimes should be handled by legal authorities, not the newspapers and the media.
ruveyn
ruveyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
You NEVER EVER discourage the reporting of such things. Even if the child is lying, that's to be dealt with AFTER.
Trail by Press is not a quest for justice.
Alleged crimes should be handled by legal authorities, not the newspapers and the media.
ruveyn
That's what I meant.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Inuyasha wrote:
Uh considering we're talking about a man that had Parkinson's Disease, I find it highly unlikely that John Paul II wrote the letter. My grandfather had Parkinson's Disease and he couldn't write because he shook so badly, anything the Pope would have tried to write or type for that matter would be either illegible or jibberish.
Most likely it was some Cardinal acting without John Paul II's knowledge.
Most likely it was some Cardinal acting without John Paul II's knowledge.
Most likely, it still shames me to be a Catholic though.
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Was not spoken of the soul.
Vexcalibur wrote:
Around after the gun shot, John Paul got old and he didn't really set direction of much in the Vatican.
Ratzinger was actually the man behind the man during John Paul's last days. John Paul was more of an ambassador and public image. Of course, it does not mean he had not wronged by omission for letting this happen. But it is 100% most likely Ratzinger was the intellectual author of this whole Vatican method to deal with pedophiles.
I do not really think the Vatican was trying to protect the pedophilles, after all, they have nothing to win from that, it is not like that the head of the church is behind a conspiracy to get children raped. I think they were just ret*d and paranoid. They thought that taking the justice and handling by themselves, they could make sure to eliminate the pedophiles' threat without harming the image of the Church. But they were naive, we were no longer in freaking century XVI , you cannot hide things like that anymore, and it was stupid. The irony in this is that all their moves were attempts to mantain a good PR image for the church, but since they had to indirectly protect the priests from the law in order to try to hide the scandal, it really, really destroyed their PR image...
I think all the back-slash and the bad image is well-deserved, and I hope soon a new pope decides to send the whole deal to sh** and establishes a zero tolerance method , and they should also create rules for priests similar to the boy scouts of America's rules. Something as simple as making sure no member of the church is ever able to be alone with children without another adult around would do wonders not only to protect children but also to protect priests from possible smear, because, we have to accept, some of the cases are probably fabricated by greedy people that want money... and priests need to be protected by rules like that so that this sort of accusation is harder to make unless it happened.
Exactly. This is the most balanced view I've seen about the whole priest molesting situation. People usually say that they're covering it up because they're secretly a pedophile ring or that they're hypocrites who care more about the Church's reputation than the well being of little kids. But yeah, it's more of them trying to have their cake and eat it too by dealing with it themselves AND protecting the Church's reputation.
Ratzinger was actually the man behind the man during John Paul's last days. John Paul was more of an ambassador and public image. Of course, it does not mean he had not wronged by omission for letting this happen. But it is 100% most likely Ratzinger was the intellectual author of this whole Vatican method to deal with pedophiles.
I do not really think the Vatican was trying to protect the pedophilles, after all, they have nothing to win from that, it is not like that the head of the church is behind a conspiracy to get children raped. I think they were just ret*d and paranoid. They thought that taking the justice and handling by themselves, they could make sure to eliminate the pedophiles' threat without harming the image of the Church. But they were naive, we were no longer in freaking century XVI , you cannot hide things like that anymore, and it was stupid. The irony in this is that all their moves were attempts to mantain a good PR image for the church, but since they had to indirectly protect the priests from the law in order to try to hide the scandal, it really, really destroyed their PR image...
I think all the back-slash and the bad image is well-deserved, and I hope soon a new pope decides to send the whole deal to sh** and establishes a zero tolerance method , and they should also create rules for priests similar to the boy scouts of America's rules. Something as simple as making sure no member of the church is ever able to be alone with children without another adult around would do wonders not only to protect children but also to protect priests from possible smear, because, we have to accept, some of the cases are probably fabricated by greedy people that want money... and priests need to be protected by rules like that so that this sort of accusation is harder to make unless it happened.
There definitely needs to be a zero tolerance rule. Allowing one adult to be alone with a child makes it too easy to take advantage of the situation.
Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
And what if said priest happens to be innocent? So we drag an innocent man through all kinds of persecution only to find out he in fact is innocent.
You NEVER EVER discourage the reporting of such things. Even if the child is lying, that's to be dealt with AFTER.
I'm not saying you discourage the reporting, however you don't need it to be a three ring circus either. First thing if there is a report of this kind of abuse it should be turned over to authorities, not turned over to the media to blare all over the place because it doesn't help the child, if the priest is innocent you've pretty much ruined his life too.
i agree with your statement in its entirety, inuyasha. this is rare. it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. that said, i don't recall anyone saying that reports of sexual abuse should be turned over to the media. the irish document in question proposed making it mandatory that (to paraphrase the document) "if there is a report of this kind of abuse, it should be turned over to the authorities." the letter is being criticized because it specifically says that the mandatory reporting proposal won't fly with the vatican.
the problem isn't that the vatican doesn't see pedophilia as bad. the problem is that the catholic church thinks it can fix pedophilia with magic. i disagree. lacking magic, i suggest we try psychological therapy for pedophiles and prison sentences for child molesters. being the crazy liberal you know me as, i think that everyone would benefit from subsidizing mental health care. in a way, i agree with the church: i think that pedophiles can be helped and that they will not, necessarily, become child molesters. that is about where our agreement on the subject ends.
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AceOfSpades wrote:
People usually say that they're covering it up because they're secretly a pedophile ring or that they're hypocrites who care more about the Church's reputation than the well being of little kids. But yeah, it's more of them trying to have their cake and eat it too by dealing with it themselves AND protecting the Church's reputation.
There definitely needs to be a zero tolerance rule. Allowing one adult to be alone with a child makes it too easy to take advantage of the situation.
There definitely needs to be a zero tolerance rule. Allowing one adult to be alone with a child makes it too easy to take advantage of the situation.
if i were a catholic and a pedophile i would likely join the priesthood, not to facilitate the molestation of children, but to guard myself from taking such immoral actions. a solemn vow a celibacy and a lifelong effort to learn how to best serve god's wishes sounds, at first, like the perfect option for a true-believer whose sexuality is "misaligned." unfortunately, god never seems to step in for those poor pedophile priests. nor for their victims. what priest could commit such an act if god told him to stop? or did they all ignore the righteous voice of god because they knew they could "have their cake and eat it too" by confessing afterward? confessing to another priest, of course. certainly not to the police.
i think that is why there are so many instances of priest's abusing children. the big problem seems to be that magic isn't real.
_________________
Waltur the Walrus Slayer,
Militant Asantist.
"BLASPHEMER!! !! !! !!" (according to AngelRho)
