What is your opinion about the Holy Spirit?

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17 Feb 2011, 1:25 pm

The Creeds were a summation of the Faith as it already existed - not an introduction of new doctrine. As to the Holy Spirit, though - there's a few spots in John in particular. John 14:16, where Jesus promises that the Father will send the Holy Spirit as a Comforter. A comforter - Hebrew 'menechem' - was someone who, in Jewish culture of the time (and I think still now) would sit with a grieving person and guide them through it. Very active, very personal, very intentional role.

Also John 16:13-14: "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you." Again, the Spirit is presented as an active person and not a passive force - a lot of Trinitarian theology is based on passages like this one from John.

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17 Feb 2011, 1:26 pm

i hate spirits. they make me want to vomit, and they make my insides feel like they are being dissolved. i hate spirits. i really do.

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17 Feb 2011, 3:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

I like the holy spirit. despite my dislike for christianity, i have no problem with the trinity. :pig:

If I were inclined to worship multiple gods I would become a Hindu. They have six million gods which is a lot more than a paltry three.

ruveyn

And your telling me this why? I thought you were a jew, and a proud one at that. You seem to want to play both sides of the feild, I personally believe that if god wanted three individuals to make up himself he certainly could do that one. you've only been around for 74 years, God has been around since forever so would you like to tell me where this leaves us?

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18 Feb 2011, 11:24 am

Natty_Boh wrote:

From John 14:

Quote:

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you....the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

From John 16:

Quote:

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

So you're taking the Spirit of Truth (who must be a male person, given the masculine pronoun) to be the Holy Spirit? Actually, in English we use "he" exclusively as a pronoun for male humans and some animals--most other Indoeuropean languages, including (I presume) Greek are not constructed this way. The translator must have been quite certain that a male person was intended.

Jesus doesn't say that the Holy Spirit (or the Spirit of Truth) is a person of equal standing to himself and to God the Father. The Sprit of Truth does not speak on his own--he only repeats what he hears. God the Father and Son both speak on their own. So, arguments in support of the Trinity seem quite weak.

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18 Feb 2011, 11:29 am

My name is Mike and I deny the existence of the "holy spirit".

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18 Feb 2011, 11:36 am

MasterJedi wrote:

My name is Mike and I deny the existence of the "holy spirit".

Hi, Mike. Aren't you supposed to tell us how long it has been since you last denied his existence?

And here I didn't know THEY had a ten step program.

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18 Feb 2011, 11:39 am

A couple of interesting passages:

Mark 3:

Quote:

Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal damnation.

Matthew 12:

Quote:

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So, it would appear that anyone who chooses anything other than "awesome" in the poll is indeed in deep doodoo. And, there isn't a damned thing you can do about it, either. You might as well at least go out and enjoy a life of sin, now that this has been taken care of.

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18 Feb 2011, 11:56 am

Should you not first spend at least ONE century of theological debate defining and refining "blaspheme against" and "speak a word against" My Lord the Spirit? Are we to take your unsupported word that calling the Spirit "dumb" in fact meets the criteria?

I don't take off'n your church.

leejosepho
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18 Feb 2011, 12:05 pm

Philologos wrote:

Are we to take your unsupported word that calling the Spirit "dumb" in fact meets the criteria?

Should the OP not have the option of possibly offering possibly-imagined options to voters?

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Philologos
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18 Feb 2011, 12:17 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Philologos wrote:

Are we to take your unsupported word that calling the Spirit "dumb" in fact meets the criteria?

Should the OP not have the option of possibly offering possibly-imagined options to voters?

Of course, I have no objection to that whatever. And in fact one could appropriately split it into "the Spirit is dumb" and "claiming the Spirit's existence is dumb. That much is fine and trivial and if God does not blast him who am I to do it for him?

But I was referring to this:

"So, it would appear that anyone who chooses anything other than "awesome" in the poll is indeed in deep doodoo.",

which presumes that "dumb" and the other options are included as nonos in the verses he cites. I think most theologies will say they are excluded as inconsequential.

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18 Feb 2011, 12:20 pm

Ah, please excuse.

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18 Feb 2011, 12:56 pm

Philologos wrote:

One century of debate would be a mighty long thread, and our descendents would probably lose track of what we were arguing about in the first place. But, I should think that calling the Holy Spirit "Dumb" would fall within the criteria of blasphemy.

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18 Feb 2011, 1:01 pm

Okay -

but : The spirit is dumb?
The idea of a spirit is dumb?
Or both?

pandabear
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18 Feb 2011, 3:44 pm

Philologos wrote:

Okay -

but : The spirit is dumb?
The idea of a spirit is dumb?
Or both?

Either or. Blaspheming the idea of the Holy Spirit would be tantamount to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which would result in eternal and irreversible damnation.

Actually, it looks like it really doesn't matter what you do. As long as you never blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you can sin all you want, and your belief in Jesus will cause all of your sins (including Adam's original sin) to be forgiven, and off to Heaven you go.

If you ever slip up once and blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then you're off to eternal damnation, no matter how pious you otherwise were. That slip up can never be revoked or forgiven.

But, you may need to think back seven generations, to review whether any of your ancestors might have blasphemed the Holy Spirit at any time in the past couple of centuries. If so, then all may be lost, anyway.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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18 Feb 2011, 4:30 pm

Philologos wrote:

Okay -

but : The spirit is dumb?
The idea of a spirit is dumb?
Or both?

The idea behind the Holy Spirit is pretty dumb.

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18 Feb 2011, 5:22 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Philologos wrote:

Okay -

but : The spirit is dumb?
The idea of a spirit is dumb?
Or both?

The idea behind the Holy Spirit is pretty dumb.

Well, that's a brave answer, indeed.

I suppose that you could get some sort of pin or other label to demonstrate that you have already blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and that any would-be proselytizers would be wasting their time.

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