A message for the Christians

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Be careful of the quote boundaries.

Now to you question: We know things about Roman history through writings of people who lived the, actual artifacts and other physical evidence. Ditto for these later events. We have plausible and substantial knowledge which does not require believing in miracles or other suspensions of physical laws.

ruveyn

ruveyn - I am pretty sure I did not tamper but let the stupid machine calculate boundaries. My apologies, anyway. Still the message seems to have worked.

I will point out:

You are willing and able to know a fair amount about the Romans, though those narratives especially in early parts but as late as Constantine are embellished with fantastic and/or miraculous anecdotes, which I suppose you filter out, editing the Romulus and Remus deal to "Rome got founded."

You say you do NOT know about the activities of this aberrant cluster of mostly hick Jews, even though if you filtered out the birth narrative as I presume you do the she-wolf, and the resurrection claim as you likely do Constantine's flying cross, you would have quite a bit of documentation until they come to Rome's attention and Roman documents take it up.

Of course, you may simply be saying that you can not / do not know that his intent was to reform Judaism as pgd claimed. In which case, of course, you are quite right, the record of Josh's actions does not give a clear statement of his agenda. Best we really have is Paul's agenda - and he was more concerned with setting up the organization than with mission statements.

I half think either Charlemagne or his father has at least one fantastic / ,iraculous episode in the record, but I am not certain.

Repaired, I think.

The Christianity we have today is in fact Paulianity.

ruveyn

Really, you sweep far too much, Herr General.

A large part of the structure of most of the organizations is Pauline.

Some important pieces of theory are Pauline.

Certain groups among those who style themselves Christian explicitly take Pauline stances while claiming that what Jesus said was not directed at the Church and applirs only to his audiences.

But to say "Christianity follows Paul?" There are important Johannine and Augustinian elements. The Nicene formula cannot be derived simply from Paul's dicta.

AND unless you chop large sections of Nicene Christians out of the church and hide us away with Mormons and Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses and others, there are a lot of us who put Paul a step below the Christ in authority.

The Christianity we have, or rather one gets today is Marconian and Augustianian.
The Jewishness had vanished almost completely by the 4nd century.
Christian thought seems to owe more to Classical Philosophy
than anything else.
Calvin managed to re-inject a good dose of his strident reading of Paul
during the reformation though.

Marcion was explicitly rejected - he'd have had us throw out the entire Old Testament. His ideas do still crop up, particularly among Middle Eastern Christians influenced by local politics; but that is aberration rather than the norm or an official standard. In high-church practice and prayer, it seems to me that there's a fair amount of continuity with Judaism left.

Now as this is a religious forum, why shouldnt Christians be allowed to discuss their religion amongst themselves?

I have suggested to you in the past that you avoid the Christian topics if you dislike them so much, yet you pop up in each and every Christian thread to interupt our discussions, you obviously dont want us to keep it to ourselves, you want to join in!

Why dont you start a few threads on Judaism if you feel left out?
You could enlighten us with a few choice statements from the Babylonian Talmud that will help others see why you hate Christianity so vehemontly and what the Jewish religion really teaches about Jesus and Goyim and Blacks.

I have no great desire to sell Judaism to non-Jews. If one is lucky enough to be born Jewish, that is cool. if one is not born Jewish he or she should keep the Noah Laws and live like a decent human being.

The Noah Laws:

Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of law courts

For more details see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

ruveyn

As soon as you keep your atheism to yourself.

By the Romans and Greeks, yep, it was.

I am not an atheist. I happen to believe that the God that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob served were extra-terrestrial folk who involved themselves with the human race for a limited period of time. In short I believe God is as natural as rain. That which the called God was here for a while and is not here now.

I merely remind people that there is not an iota of empirical evidence that the God of Abraham as a supernatural being exists, and the Holy Books are folk-lore with some literary worth. Actually I think the works of Tolkien are better than Scripture. They are better written.

ruveyn

ruveyn

You are that extra terrestrial alien, oh mighty Ruveyn.

But boy were you cheeky, giving Abraham a good scare by ordering him to sacrifice his son.

I believe that everyone has a right to express their views as long as it does not hurt others...but in a lot of cases it does...

But your views do not?

well if not believing in god hurts others then no. but i dont see how having a different view harms someone else. someone can reply to this and say why they disagree with me. as long as theyre not being hostile, im fine