Ascetism.
GoonSquad
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Age: 56
Gender: Male
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Location: International House of Paincakes...
Here’s a bit of Stoic logic/wisdom (shared by the Buddhists, I think, correct me if necessary):
To exits is to suffer.
All suffering comes from desire.
Therefore, to mitigate ones suffering, ones should master and minimize one’s desire.
Most people practice a form of enlightened hedonism. They seek the maximum amount of (non-harmful) pleasure they can provide for themselves. They attempt to eat as much as they can without becoming morbidly obese. They attempt to drink/dope themselves as much as possible without becoming an addict. They attempt to acquire as many nice/cool/flashy possessions as possible without going bankrupt… etc.
The problem for many people who follow this path is something called hedonic adaptation. Hedonic adaptation is the theory that happiness is relative—a person does not become happier as they become wealthier and acquire more stuff, because as affluence increases, expectations and desires increase too.
This also means the level of dissatisfaction is pretty much constant. No matter how much you have, you always want more and better!
For a Stoic, the goal is to be satisfied and stress free. By living as simply as possible, a stoic reduces stress because he does not need to earn as much to maintain his lifestyle…
You aren’t stuck doing a stressful job you hate simply because you need the money. In the long run, the Stoic is just as happy (because happiness is relative) and that happiness will be compounded by an absence of stress!
I used to have a lot of stuff and a job that paid $50K/year and made me want to put a gun in my mouth EVEYDAY. Now, I have a lot less crap, make $20K/year and I’m much more content/tranquil/happy.
In addition, Stoics practice negative visualization and self-denial as a way to combat dissatisfaction/unreasonable desire.
As an example—I love a good, bloody steak, but my diet is mostly grains, legumes, and veggies. I eat red meat less than once a month and I have a much greater appreciation for steak!! !
In order to keep myself satisfied with lentils and couscous, before I eat, I imagine myself as a homeless person, digging through trash cans and living on half-eaten scraps from McDonalds…
And finally, to actually enhance my enjoyment of lentils and couscous, I fast at least once a week. The old saying, “ANYTHING taste good when you’re hungry,” really is true.
I know all this probably sounds horrifying to most people, but it’s not hard to do (once you get your head straight), and it really will enhance your happiness.
_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus
To exits is to suffer.
All suffering comes from desire.
Therefore, to mitigate ones suffering, ones should master and minimize one’s desire.
Most people practice a form of enlightened hedonism. They seek the maximum amount of (non-harmful) pleasure they can provide for themselves. They attempt to eat as much as they can without becoming morbidly obese. They attempt to drink/dope themselves as much as possible without becoming an addict. They attempt to acquire as many nice/cool/flashy possessions as possible without going bankrupt… etc.
The problem for many people who follow this path is something called hedonic adaptation. Hedonic adaptation is the theory that happiness is relative—a person does not become happier as they become wealthier and acquire more stuff, because as affluence increases, expectations and desires increase too.
This also means the level of dissatisfaction is pretty much constant. No matter how much you have, you always want more and better!
For a Stoic, the goal is to be satisfied and stress free. By living as simply as possible, a stoic reduces stress because he does not need to earn as much to maintain his lifestyle…
You aren’t stuck doing a stressful job you hate simply because you need the money. In the long run, the Stoic is just as happy (because happiness is relative) and that happiness will be compounded by an absence of stress!
I used to have a lot of stuff and a job that paid $50K/year and made me want to put a gun in my mouth EVEYDAY. Now, I have a lot less crap, make $20K/year and I’m much more content/tranquil/happy.
In addition, Stoics practice negative visualization and self-denial as a way to combat dissatisfaction/unreasonable desire.
As an example—I love a good, bloody steak, but my diet is mostly grains, legumes, and veggies. I eat red meat less than once a month and I have a much greater appreciation for steak!! !
In order to keep myself satisfied with lentils and couscous, before I eat, I imagine myself as a homeless person, digging through trash cans and living on half-eaten scraps from McDonalds…
And finally, to actually enhance my enjoyment of lentils and couscous, I fast at least once a week. The old saying, “ANYTHING taste good when you’re hungry,” really is true.
I know all this probably sounds horrifying to most people, but it’s not hard to do (once you get your head straight), and it really will enhance your happiness.
There you go a life of restraint if much more enjoyable then one of excess.
if you eat one whopper a year boy are they good one a day, like to die.
I find I fall into a little bit of money anorexia I find pleasure in spending less, earning less, and churning less.
I guess its my way of going Galt
the economic system I live in is not my friend so I don't feel I owe it my money, time or labor.
I make enough for my needs and obligations and no more.
-Jake
p.s. this is a very bad way to get a girlfriend or keep a wife.
GoonSquad
Veteran
Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...
if you eat one whopper a year boy are they good one a day, like to die.
I find I fall into a little bit of money anorexia I find pleasure in spending less, earning less, and churning less.
I guess its my way of going Galt
the economic system I live in is not my friend so I don't feel I owe it my money, time or labor.
I make enough for my needs and obligations and no more.
-Jake
p.s. this is a very bad way to get a girlfriend or keep a wife.
...or, you could squander your money eating the finest food stuffed with the second finest food (lobster stuffed with tacos) all the time and lose the ability to enjoy a whopper at all.
PS
look for a hippie chick or buy a bottle of babyoil.
_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus
if you eat one whopper a year boy are they good one a day, like to die.
I find I fall into a little bit of money anorexia I find pleasure in spending less, earning less, and churning less.
I guess its my way of going Galt
the economic system I live in is not my friend so I don't feel I owe it my money, time or labor.
I make enough for my needs and obligations and no more.
-Jake
p.s. this is a very bad way to get a girlfriend or keep a wife.
...or, you could squander your money eating the finest food stuffed with the second finest food (lobster stuffed with tacos) all the time and lose the ability to enjoy a whopper at all.
PS
look for a hippie chick or buy a bottle of babyoil.
wouldn't it be easier to put the lobster i8n the tacos?
Ironicaly on wedsday I am marrying a NT girl with a Masters of fine arts and a huge bossom.
but I am extremely good looking and really funny which is always a good strategy.
If for real [I make no assumptions] congrats and many years with no returns.
What do you do with Fine Arts if you can't find an anthropologist?
1) no unless you are my mother in which case the answer is yes.
2) her great grandfather "emigrated" to arizona in order to dodge a murder charge in texas.
he also sold weapons to the Chiricahua apache in their conflict with the u.s. government
her father father "emigrated" to texas to avoid a drug trafficing charges.
so I would say strong western stock.
-Jake
Okay.
Minor spelling correction.
Agreed. Will just point out that to Buddhists, suffering and pain are separate things.
Most people practice a form of enlightened hedonism. They seek the maximum amount of (non-harmful) pleasure they can provide for themselves. They attempt to eat as much as they can without becoming morbidly obese. They attempt to drink/dope themselves as much as possible without becoming an addict. They attempt to acquire as many nice/cool/flashy possessions as possible without going bankrupt… etc.
Nah, it's not enlightened. Human organism is programmed to find certain things pleasurable, then they seek them. Most people just enter into an instinctive cycle of getting pleasure/recovering from pleasure. Most people get the unpleasurable signals to stop for a while when they've eaten enough cake or snorted enough coke or banged enough supermodels, and they do.
Yeah. With unenlightened hedonism, there's never enough. That's a kind of suffering; saturation point... boredom... dukkha.
Mmm, don't know about constant. I'd say it fluctuates/cycles.
That's fairly Buddhist too.
I used to have a lot of stuff and a job that paid $50K/year and made me want to put a gun in my mouth EVEYDAY. Now, I have a lot less crap, make $20K/year and I’m much more content/tranquil/happy.
That's good news!
Buddhists don't necessarily always engage in self denial. Monastics may well take precepts, and only eat once a day. Lay Buddhists are not necessarily so self denying. It's perfectly okay to experience pleasure and enjoy enjoyable things. Indulgence in pleasure is only considered 'bad' if one is attached to the pleasure, grasps at it, causes suffering to oneself or others through it.
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Is it possible to experience pleasure without becoming attached to it? That is like saying that it is possible to indulge in cocaine and not become addicted to it.
Humanity is not Pringle's Chips.
Cocaine? Me no savvy.
But we know A can down X shots a day for two weeks, leave it, a year later do it again
And B gets into it till he can;t havce one beer without a binge.
Same for a lot of other pleasures.
AND some get into this pleasure or that to where they need to cold turkey dry off.
The reason I bring up drugs is because the consumption of psychotropic drugs represents an extreme example of hedonism. Most people would regard the intake of drugs as quite different from say the social consumption of alcohol or a trip to the amusement park; but our present understanding of the brain’s neural circuitry actually informs us that the pleasure centers in the brain are the same; it is the intensity of the stimulation that is different. Few would argue that drug addiction leads to happiness and yet most people would assert that the indulgence in other pleasurable activities is reasonable and actually positive. What would life be like if people cannot have a little fun?
Is it possible to experience pleasure without becoming attached to it? That is like saying that it is possible to indulge in cocaine and not become addicted to it.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
You are talking about extremes there. Let's use another example. I am about to eat a bowl of brocolli. I happen to enjoy eating brocolli. I will enjoy this bowl, and then I may find that I desire more. But I won't necessarily get attached to that. I won't go out of my way to get another bowl. I won't rob my mother or kill anyone to get some. I will abandon that attachment if or as it arises.
Cocaine is different. It creates a much stronger attachment. Cocaine is very addictive. Still, I'm sure some people manage to use it and not get addicted. *shrug*
I wasn't suggesting people actually use cocaine. That's a pretty unenlightened way to feel good.
Skillful observation of one's experiences will naturally lead one to an abandonment of 'negative' pleasures, and lead one towards more positive pleasures; meditation, service to others, simple existence in a now without suffering.
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