A message to the followers of Ba'al at Peor
pandabear wrote:
If you read Exodus 2 and 3, you'll find that Moses himself married a Midianite girl named Zipporah, and that her father, Jethro, was a Midianite priest. They lived somewhere close to Mount Sinai (which they called the "Holy Mountain"), and were quite amiable, peaceful, pleasant people. You couldn't possibly demonstrate any greater congeniality than by offering one of your daughters as a wife to a stranger.
If you have read the Book of Mormon, then you know that our American Indians are in fact descendents of Hebrews who left Egypt somewhere around the time of Moses. It is possible that some Midianites left with the Hebrews on the same ships, and that they later established their religion in Peoria. However, the Indian Removal Act of 1830 resulted in the forced removal of all American Indians from the state of Illinois. So, you won't find any descendents of worshippers of Baal in Peoria any more.
If you have read the Book of Mormon, then you know that our American Indians are in fact descendents of Hebrews who left Egypt somewhere around the time of Moses. It is possible that some Midianites left with the Hebrews on the same ships, and that they later established their religion in Peoria. However, the Indian Removal Act of 1830 resulted in the forced removal of all American Indians from the state of Illinois. So, you won't find any descendents of worshippers of Baal in Peoria any more.
there you go and since belief only require possible not probable.
hhmmm could be.
Here is the full text of Numbers 25
Quote:
When the Israelites were camped at Acacia Valley, the men began to have sexual intercourse with the Moabite women who were there. These women invited them to sacrificial feasts, where the god of Moab was worshiped. The Israelites ate the food and worshiped the god Baal of Peor. So the Lord was angry with them and said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of Israel and, in obedience to me, execute them in broad daylight, and then I will no longer be angry with the people."
Moses said to the officials, "Each of you is to kill every man in your tribe who has become a worshiper of Baal of Peor."
One of the Israelites took a Midianite woman into his tent in the sight of Moses and the whole community, while they were mourning at the entrance of the Tent of the Lord's presence. When Phinehas, the son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest, saw this, he got up and left the assembly. He took a spear, followed the man and the woman into the tent, and drove the spear through both of them. In this way the epidemic that was destroying Israel was stopped, but it had already killed twenty-four thousand people.
The Lord said to Moses, "Because of what Phinehas has done, I am no longer angry with the people of Israel. He refused to tolerate the worship of any god but me, and that is why I did not destroy them in my anger. So tell him that I am making a covenant with him that is valid for all time to come. He and his descendants are permanently established as priests, because he did not tolerate any rivals to me and brought about forgiveness for the people's sin."
The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the head of a family in the tribe of Simeon. The woman's name was Cozbi. Zur, her father, was chief of a group of Midianite clans. The Lord commanded Moses, "Attack the Midianites and destroy them, because of the evil they did to you when they deceived you at Peor, and because of Cozbi, who was killed at the time of the epidemic at Peor."
Moses said to the officials, "Each of you is to kill every man in your tribe who has become a worshiper of Baal of Peor."
One of the Israelites took a Midianite woman into his tent in the sight of Moses and the whole community, while they were mourning at the entrance of the Tent of the Lord's presence. When Phinehas, the son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest, saw this, he got up and left the assembly. He took a spear, followed the man and the woman into the tent, and drove the spear through both of them. In this way the epidemic that was destroying Israel was stopped, but it had already killed twenty-four thousand people.
The Lord said to Moses, "Because of what Phinehas has done, I am no longer angry with the people of Israel. He refused to tolerate the worship of any god but me, and that is why I did not destroy them in my anger. So tell him that I am making a covenant with him that is valid for all time to come. He and his descendants are permanently established as priests, because he did not tolerate any rivals to me and brought about forgiveness for the people's sin."
The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the head of a family in the tribe of Simeon. The woman's name was Cozbi. Zur, her father, was chief of a group of Midianite clans. The Lord commanded Moses, "Attack the Midianites and destroy them, because of the evil they did to you when they deceived you at Peor, and because of Cozbi, who was killed at the time of the epidemic at Peor."
The text does seem to be a bit of a confusing jumble. It starts out with Moabite girls showing a really good time to Hebrew boys, whom Moses consequently has executed. Then, it switches to Midianites--one Hebrew boy (named Zimri) takes a Midianite girl (named Cozbi) into his tent, and both get a spear run through their bodies. Then, there is something about an epidemic (which took place at the time that they killed Cozbi). And, the Lord commands Moses to destroy the Midianites, apparently because of the good times that some of the Hebrew boys had been enjoying.
The worshippers of Baal at Peor do seem to have a much more pleasant religion than the Israelites.
I'm confused now as to who the Midianites were and who the Moabites were--maybe they were the same?
By the grace of God and miraculous provision, it is a lot less bluggy.
I am not likely to type it out for you, but in the Desert Father literature thee is a REALLY good story bearing on the subject.
But I am advised that even if you are into Moabitesses you want to stay clear of Bacchantes.
The saga continues in Numbers 31
Quote:
The Lord said to Moses, "Punish the Midianites for what they did to the people of Israel. After you have done that, you will die."
So Moses said to the people, "Get ready for war, so that you can attack Midian and punish them for what they did to the Lord. From each tribe of Israel send a thousand men to war."
So a thousand men were chosen from each tribe, a total of twelve thousand men ready for battle. Moses sent them to war under the command of Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who took charge of the sacred objects and the trumpets for giving signals. They attacked Midian, as the Lord had commanded Moses, and killed all the men, including the five kings of Midian: Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba. They also killed Balaam son of Beor.
The people of Israel captured the Midianite women and children, took their cattle and their flocks, plundered all their wealth, and burned all their cities and camps. They took all the loot that they had captured, including the prisoners and the animals, and brought them to Moses and Eleazar and to the community of the people of Israel, who were at the camp on the plains of Moab across the Jordan from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar, and all the other leaders of the community went out of the camp to meet the army. Moses became angry with the officers, the commanders of battalions and companies, who had returned from the war. He asked them, "Why have you kept all the women alive? Remember that it was the women who followed Balaam's instructions and at Peor led the people to be unfaithful to the Lord. That was what brought the epidemic on the Lord's people. So now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins. Now all of you who have killed anyone or have touched a corpse must stay outside the camp for seven days. On the third day and on the seventh day purify yourselves and the women you have captured. You must also purify every piece of clothing and everything made of leather, goats' hair, or wood."
Eleazar the priest said to the men who had returned from battle, "These are the regulations that the Lord has given to Moses Everything that will not burn, such as gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, or lead, is to be purified by passing it through fire. Everything else is to be purified by the water for purification. On the seventh day you must wash your clothes; then you will be ritually clean and will be permitted to enter the camp."
The Lord said to Moses, "You and Eleazar, together with the other leaders of the community, are to count everything that has been captured, including the prisoners and the animals. Divide what was taken into two equal parts, one part for the soldiers and the other part for the rest of the community. From the part that belongs to the soldiers, withhold as a tax for the Lord one out of every five hundred prisoners and the same proportion of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats. Give them to Eleazar the priest as a special contribution to the Lord. From the part given to the rest of the people, take one out of every fifty prisoners and the same proportion of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats. Give them to the Levites who are in charge of the Lord's Tent."
Moses and Eleazar did what the Lord commanded.
The following is a list of what was captured by the soldiers, in addition to what they kept for themselves: 675,000 sheep and goats, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and 32,000 virgins.36-40The half share of the soldiers was 337,500 sheep and goats, of which 675 were the tax for the Lord; 36,000 cattle for the soldiers, of which 72 were the tax for the Lord; 30,500 donkeys for the soldiers, of which 61 were the tax for the Lord; and 16,000 virgins for the soldiers, of which 32 were the tax for the Lord. So Moses gave Eleazar the tax as a special contribution to the Lord, as the Lord had commanded.
The share of the community was the same as that for the soldiers: 337,500 sheep and goats, 36,000 cattle, 30,500 donkeys, and 16,000 virgins. From this share Moses took one out of every fifty prisoners and animals, and as the Lord had commanded, gave them to the Levites who were in charge of the Lord's Tent.
Then the officers who had commanded the army went to Moses and reported, "Sir, we have counted the soldiers under our command and not one of them is missing. So we are bringing the gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, rings, earrings, and necklaces that each of us has taken. We offer them to the Lord as a payment for our lives, so that he will protect us."
Moses and Eleazar received the gold, all of which was in the form of ornaments. The total contribution of the officers weighed over four hundred pounds. Those who were not officers kept the loot they had taken. So Moses and Eleazar took the gold to the Tent, so that the Lord would protect the people of Israel.
So Moses said to the people, "Get ready for war, so that you can attack Midian and punish them for what they did to the Lord. From each tribe of Israel send a thousand men to war."
So a thousand men were chosen from each tribe, a total of twelve thousand men ready for battle. Moses sent them to war under the command of Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who took charge of the sacred objects and the trumpets for giving signals. They attacked Midian, as the Lord had commanded Moses, and killed all the men, including the five kings of Midian: Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba. They also killed Balaam son of Beor.
The people of Israel captured the Midianite women and children, took their cattle and their flocks, plundered all their wealth, and burned all their cities and camps. They took all the loot that they had captured, including the prisoners and the animals, and brought them to Moses and Eleazar and to the community of the people of Israel, who were at the camp on the plains of Moab across the Jordan from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar, and all the other leaders of the community went out of the camp to meet the army. Moses became angry with the officers, the commanders of battalions and companies, who had returned from the war. He asked them, "Why have you kept all the women alive? Remember that it was the women who followed Balaam's instructions and at Peor led the people to be unfaithful to the Lord. That was what brought the epidemic on the Lord's people. So now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins. Now all of you who have killed anyone or have touched a corpse must stay outside the camp for seven days. On the third day and on the seventh day purify yourselves and the women you have captured. You must also purify every piece of clothing and everything made of leather, goats' hair, or wood."
Eleazar the priest said to the men who had returned from battle, "These are the regulations that the Lord has given to Moses Everything that will not burn, such as gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, or lead, is to be purified by passing it through fire. Everything else is to be purified by the water for purification. On the seventh day you must wash your clothes; then you will be ritually clean and will be permitted to enter the camp."
The Lord said to Moses, "You and Eleazar, together with the other leaders of the community, are to count everything that has been captured, including the prisoners and the animals. Divide what was taken into two equal parts, one part for the soldiers and the other part for the rest of the community. From the part that belongs to the soldiers, withhold as a tax for the Lord one out of every five hundred prisoners and the same proportion of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats. Give them to Eleazar the priest as a special contribution to the Lord. From the part given to the rest of the people, take one out of every fifty prisoners and the same proportion of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats. Give them to the Levites who are in charge of the Lord's Tent."
Moses and Eleazar did what the Lord commanded.
The following is a list of what was captured by the soldiers, in addition to what they kept for themselves: 675,000 sheep and goats, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and 32,000 virgins.36-40The half share of the soldiers was 337,500 sheep and goats, of which 675 were the tax for the Lord; 36,000 cattle for the soldiers, of which 72 were the tax for the Lord; 30,500 donkeys for the soldiers, of which 61 were the tax for the Lord; and 16,000 virgins for the soldiers, of which 32 were the tax for the Lord. So Moses gave Eleazar the tax as a special contribution to the Lord, as the Lord had commanded.
The share of the community was the same as that for the soldiers: 337,500 sheep and goats, 36,000 cattle, 30,500 donkeys, and 16,000 virgins. From this share Moses took one out of every fifty prisoners and animals, and as the Lord had commanded, gave them to the Levites who were in charge of the Lord's Tent.
Then the officers who had commanded the army went to Moses and reported, "Sir, we have counted the soldiers under our command and not one of them is missing. So we are bringing the gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, rings, earrings, and necklaces that each of us has taken. We offer them to the Lord as a payment for our lives, so that he will protect us."
Moses and Eleazar received the gold, all of which was in the form of ornaments. The total contribution of the officers weighed over four hundred pounds. Those who were not officers kept the loot they had taken. So Moses and Eleazar took the gold to the Tent, so that the Lord would protect the people of Israel.
If the Hebrews had really wanted virgins, the religion of the Midianites (or Moabites) may have been such that the Hebrew boys didn't even have to ask.
They even killed Balaam, who just a few chapters earlier had been effusively blessing the Israelites.
All of this, just because a few Hebrew boys had been having a good time with Moabite or Midianite girls.
It would be as if some young men from the city of Joliet had gone to have a good time in Peoria's red light district, to enjoy some barbecued meat and some women. Then, the city council of Joliet decided first to execute all of the Joliet boys who had enjoyed Peoria's entertainment, and then not only looted and plundered Peoria, and killed all of the non-virgin inhabitants, but kept Peorian virgin girls as sex slaves.
Sorry, but I am sure that I would find the worshippers of Baal at Peor to be much more hospitable than the worshippers of Yahweh.
JakobVirgil wrote:
לא תתעב אדמי כי אחיך הוא לא תתעב מצרי כי גר היית בארצו׃
Okay, I found this one
Deuteronomy 23:7
Quote:
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.
What does this have to do with worshipping Ba'al at Peor?
Tensu wrote:
You do realize that that particular pantheon required child sacrifice, right?
Is this true? Or, is this similar to the accusations of blood libel that have been levied against Jews for the past couple of millenia? Supposedly Jews have been drinking the blood of Christian babies, using Christian baby blood as an ingredient in their matzohs, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
Could the accusation of child sacrifice against worshippers of Ba'al at Peor have been similarly false or inflated, in order to make them look bad? Especially in the Bible?
pandabear wrote:
Tensu wrote:
You do realize that that particular pantheon required child sacrifice, right?
Is this true? Or, is this similar to the accusations of blood libel that have been levied against Jews for the past couple of millenia? Supposedly Jews have been drinking the blood of Christian babies, using Christian baby blood as an ingredient in their matzohs, etc.
Only by Christians and that started back in the Middle Ages. much less than 2000 years as you claim.
ruveyn
Quote:
The origins of the blood libel are found in the writings of to the Graeco-Egyptian author Apion, who claimed that Jews sacrificed Greek victims in their temple. Apion repeated anti-Jewish slurs and "absurd calumnies" first made by Posidonius and Apollonius Molon in the 1st century BCE. This resulted in an attack on Jews in Alexandria in 38 CE in which thousands of Jews died. Socrates Scholasticus (fl. 5th Century) reported that some Jews in a drunken frolic bound a Christian child on a cross in mockery of the death of Christ and scourged him until he died.
pandabear wrote:
Quote:
The origins of the blood libel are found in the writings of to the Graeco-Egyptian author Apion, who claimed that Jews sacrificed Greek victims in their temple. Apion repeated anti-Jewish slurs and "absurd calumnies" first made by Posidonius and Apollonius Molon in the 1st century BCE. This resulted in an attack on Jews in Alexandria in 38 CE in which thousands of Jews died. Socrates Scholasticus (fl. 5th Century) reported that some Jews in a drunken frolic bound a Christian child on a cross in mockery of the death of Christ and scourged him until he died.
Interesting. Thank you for this tidbit.
ruveyn
