Religion

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Sorry, that is what I meant. All this ranting about interpretations and I can't even say what I mean properly!

Also, I found some quotes (a lot of them said by people thought to have had AS) that basically sum up how I feel about religion:

'If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.' -Mark Twain

'The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.' -Friedrich Nietzsche

'All Bibles are man-made.' -Thomas Edison

'So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.' -Bertrand Russell

'Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.' -Voltaire

'Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction.' -Blaise Pascal

'Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.' -Lucius Annaeus Seneca

'If it weren't for Christians, I'd be a Christian.' -Mahatma Ghandi

'God cannot send to eternal pain a man who has done something toward improving the condition of his fellow-man. If he can, I had rather go to hell than to heaven and keep company with such a god.' -Robert Ingersoll

‘Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.’ -Thomas Jefferson

‘I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.’ -Mahatma Ghandi

‘The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... logic can be happily tossed out the window.’ -Stephen King

‘Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others.’ -Buddha

‘A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.’ -Albert Einstein

'Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.' -Buddha

Whose David Icke? Is he related to David Koresh? If it is remember a few things: It was nearly 2000 years ago
People witnessed miracles
John foretold his coming and then accepted Jesus as the one he meant
Weather he did anything or not word of mouth ruled and people believed what they heard?
He was at least good natured
He was intelligent
It was said he knew the bible inside and out as he quoted it often
He had a close fellowship of elite followers of nearly equal conviction, will, minds, and compassion.
He gave his life for something
Many of his teachings have been warped, controlled, manipulated, and falsely used even by the very Christian churches his ideas founded


Does that help?

I agree with you, Melvis. If Jesus said what the bible actually claims he said (which I really don't think he did) and a person were to make the same claim today the would be considered insane. One time I went to church with a friend, and the pastor (I think that's what they call it in a Lutheran church) said, 'Could you imagine what it would've been like 2000 years ago and have Jesus ask you to follow him?' I remember thinking, 'I would think he was delusional.'

Sort of on topic: Some of my favourite shows on TV are the ones with stand-up comedians. One of them said once (DO NOT BE OFFENDED, THIS IS A JOKE) 'Christians claim we are all children of God. If that is true, what makes Jesus so special?'

I often ask that same question. I have heard that Jesus actually did say he was not the literal son of God. I think it was actually something more like "I am the way", how that phrase got so out of whack? Well, when the Roman Emperor wanted the religion unified and codified, councils were created to CHOOSE which books of the original bibles to keep. The result. About half of all christian holy books are NOT in the bible, including one I heard was essentially written by a scribe who wrote word for word everything Jesus ever said. I that is the Gospel of Thomas. Several of these early Christian sects used many of these different bible books and believed as you beleive Bec.

Time, time...If you ever note the first four Gospels successively get more distorted and REINTERPRETED to suit the time and situation to manipulate people. Like the books and stories of King Arthur, Robin Hood, Jack and the Beanstalk, and many others were similarily skewed to suit the times there were written in.

I feel that now we are too cynical to believe if we witnessed a 'miracle'- there are plenty of healers who many people consider to be frauds. Don't get me wrong I believe that Jesus was a great man, a healer and someone who was willing to die for his beliefs- however I personally don't believe that he was the son of god.

David Icke was a sports presenter in the UK who decided one day that he was the son of god.

Mel

I used to hear that God was perfect, all knowing, all seeing, all loving, and such. And that "we are God's children", then I heard that Jesus was his son, and thought "What's so special about that?"

I have yet to comprehend how these two juxtaposing thoughts make sense to so many in religion.

I also can't believe that if there is a God, that he had a literal son, this sounds to much like Mythology, which many seem to think of as primitive beliefs, yet, is not the main forms of Christianity the same?

These doubts spill into other thoughts like how can religion create such hostility?

Does not religion teach love, respect, peace, love, and such?

How can the Pope, the supposed successors of Jesus, lead armies to war, like in the Renaissance period?

I can help thinking the irony: We are mind blind, but the world is spirit blind. They do not even understand their own religion yet get annoyed that other religions of slightly different interpretations exist I hear that Unitarianism is kind of a catchall religion, thus perhaps the most unified and in tune with the spirit of all.

I cannot understand human belief in an invisible/unprovable intelligent being imbued with perfection and immaculate power, and yet they believe he somehow acts like Hugh Hefner spreading his lineage everywhere (in general to all beleifs), they are unconcerned about committing countless sins against because they are convinced no matter what they will get off at the end if the accept him, carelessly infest the world with violence, war, wanton animalistic relationship exchanges, terror, torture, theft of body and soul, and act is if the almighty babysitter/dad will look away and never do anything to whip them into shape, or punish, or banish those that have essentially no soul themselves. I don't get it.

Another contradictory thing I've heard people say about God is 'He knows everything that has happened, everything that is happening now, and everything that will happen'. Yet at the same time 'God gave man free will'. I have been reading a lot about free will lately, and if anybody knows for sure what will happen, then man has no free will. So how can God know everything about us, know what will happen, and at the same time He gave us free will? That doesn't make sense.

I also think Bec, refering to your statements, it is contridictory regarding fate, that God, if he exists, gave humans intelligent minds. What would the point if humans were preprogrammed to fulfill a predetermined destiny.

I think that if it any of this stuff were true it would only be, kind of like a video game, a predetermined birth, one or a select few of potential perfect matched mates, general direction based on skills/interests programmed into one's soul and enhanced by a programmed biological form, and death, which can be altered slightly depending upon choices made up to it and if you are due to have one.

Then it would be more acceptable, logical, and make more sense in general.

That makes sense to me. So God could 'see the future' the way we can. For example, a person has the choice of attending university or finishing high school or dropping out of high school. The choice is entirely up to them, but I can see that if the were to attend university their life would be very different than not even completing high school.

This explanation is sort of like those 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books!

nay nay, i think that if someone had to make a choice, there could only be one choice made, say, I'm typing this post, in Gods plan, he knew that I would be typing exactly what I'm typing and miss-spelling the words that I may miss spell.

sounds like we have an internal/external locus of control isue here...

responsibility, now, there's a thought...

Somebody help me out here - The thing that no Christian has ever managed to explain to me is why this wonderful God of theirs is such a rampant egotist - i.e. He seems to insist that you waste at least an hour of precious free time every week (or considerably more depending on whichever odious faith it is you're unfortunate to have gotten lumbered with as a child), freezing your nether regions off in some godawful church or other, telling him at length how terribly good he is and all that, and then throws anybody who doesn't kowtow into the fiery regions of wherever when their formerly-mortal coil is beshuffled..... Sounds like a spoiled 10 year old brat rather than an almighty, perfect being to me.......

(presses the big red button marked "controversy - do not press" and then legs it......)

.....and another thing - did God intend mankind to be sinful or not? If he intended to allow us to be sinful, then how come we get fried for eternity just for doing what he intended us to do? If a carpenter deliberately makes a table with a wonky leg, and the table collapses, how can it be the table's fault? Eh?

And if he didn't intend to make us with the capacity for sin, then there's that "perfect God" thing raising its malformed noggin again.....

And don't even THINK of using that "freedom of choice" malarkey - it don't cut no mustard and deep down you Christians know it, so just accept it....

Wasteing an hour of time?!?!?! Yes I'm a druid, yet I'm also a Christian, and I don't waste time. I enjoy going to chruch, so just shut up and stop insulting people, obivously you don't need to be posting in this forum since you ain't Mature, or at least don't at like it. I feel sorry for you. He is all-perfect, wheter ye call him God, Muhammad, Bain, or whatever. I pray that He will forgive your stupidity.

Rakkety_Tamm me old mucker....

If you'll actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I am not insulting God, but rather questioning some of the (in my opinion - you know, free speech and all that jazz? That thing Americans invade smaller countries to protect, remember?) ludicrous belief systems that have been built up around him and fobbed-off on the masses to further some thoroughly unpleasant agendas down through the ages. I obviously don't believe myself, but I have absolutely no beef with the personal spiritual beliefs of others whatsoever..... I'm merely making a point about Organised religion, which is a very different thing to personal, individual spirituality in my opinion. If you can give me an answer to my questions, I will cheerfully withdraw my remarks about organised religion...... I'm sure that if your God is perfect, then he won't take offence to what I think anyway, will he?.

Plus, I don't think telling someone who doesn't agree with your particular sensibilities to "shut up" exactly qualifies as "Mature" discussion now does it, hmmmm?

I don't want to start a row here with anyone - I'm merely expressing my opinion on a subject on which I feel strongly, as do you obviously, something I thought this site was supposed to be about? I can accept your opinions and not agree with them - why not try reciprocating? Let's hug and celebrate our differences and all that

P.S. My deity can fight your deity, so nerrrr!! !! ! (joke about mature religious discussion there - not an inflammatory remark.... just thought I'd make sure it wasn't misinterpreted)

P.P.S. We really must talk about politics sometime - that'd probably be.... interesting

That doesn't make any sense. If there is no choice, how can one make a choice?