When Alan Met Ayn: "Atlas Shrugged" And Our Tanked

Page 2 of 4 [ 57 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

cave_canem
Deinonychus

Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 378
Location: Canada

18 Apr 2011, 9:16 pm

Vigilans wrote:

I'm pretty sure no mainstream philosophers give Rand's Objectivism any credibility. The only people who seem to think it is a real philosophy are those who want to justify their greed, ignorance and disregard

Does that still apply to people who read her books and enjoyed them as works of fiction, and not as a guide to living their lives?

I can honestly say I did quite enjoy all of Ayn Rand's books. But to me they were stories. Like in the Bible. Nothing to take too literally.

sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 71
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

18 Apr 2011, 9:35 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Very interesting read, and accurate.

Too bad it's more words than any Glenn Beck Conservative will read in a sitting.

Atlas Deconstructed topic

Objectivism turned on its arse is Subjectivism, and then turn it again. One of those philosophies that does not stay put independently "out there."

Lame Ayn and Shallow Al.

_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

18 Apr 2011, 9:59 pm

cave_canem wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Course not! I think we actually talked about that once, didn't we? I dunno, I'm sure Ayn Rand is a good writer of fiction, but I object to Objectivism :lol:

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

18 Apr 2011, 10:25 pm

If nothing else, I'll say this: Ayn may be an unusual name, but he's still a ruggedly handsome man. And as good a philosopher as he was a writer.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

18 Apr 2011, 10:53 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

If nothing else, I'll say this: Ayn may be an unusual name, but he's still a ruggedly handsome man. And as good a philosopher as he was a writer.

unfair "We the Living" was actually quite good.
I see miss rosenbaum as a example of the problem of intellectual panaceas.

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

Phonic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,329
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.

19 Apr 2011, 1:45 am

I just wanna say one quick thing to you all: libertarianism in politics was first used in the 1870's, it was used by socialists, it was invented by a socialist, for a hundred years certain socialists refered to themselves as libertarian socialists and libertarian was synonomous with left wing anti state views.

the American libertarian party got America definitions mixed up, libertarianism continues to mean left wing anti statist socialism in much of the world.

by "anti state socialism" i mean socialism where you replace the word "state managed" with "communally managed".

_________________
'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

19 Apr 2011, 1:57 am

skafather84 wrote:

It's different between stroke material and actual material with some intellectual backbone to it. No one considers it some big undertaking to have read the last few Harry Potter books despite their length.

Agree with it or not, Atlas Shrugged is not light reading in any sense of the word. I read Deathly Hallows in one all night stretch, where as Atlas Shrugged took me the better part of a week. Cryptonomicon is similarly lengthy and nearly as long-winded in places, and still didn't take me as long to read (and I really liked Cryptonomicon). I digress however.

Your article took me several minutes, and left me wondering if the author would care to compare the damage allegedly caused by the disciples of Ayn Rand and those of Karl Marx; it seems like if you're going to harp on one then you can't really ignore the other. That would require intellectual honesty however, and that seems to be in short supply these days.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

19 Apr 2011, 2:05 am

Dox47 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Quoted for mothaf*ckin emphasis.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

19 Apr 2011, 2:34 am

Dox47 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Know why it's a heavy read? 3 hour soliloquy. Garbage book, garbage ideas written by someone very obviously in love with themselves to an unhealthy extent to where it very directly manifests itself in the book. There's another writer that was that in love with himself that she reminds me of but I'm not sure if referring to him in his writing capacity still breaks Godwin's law.

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

19 Apr 2011, 2:44 am

So, Ayn Rand looks like a man and writes like Hitler? Clever...

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

19 Apr 2011, 2:49 am

As a separate aside, in my time here at WP PPR I don't think I've yet seen a thread about Ayn Rand started by anyone not intent on trashing her, her writing, her philosophy, or engaging in some posthumous armchair psychology. For all her purported influence with the conservative and libertarian crowds, at least here it would seem that her shadow looms largest in the minds of liberals.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

19 Apr 2011, 3:11 am

Dox47 wrote:

This is a thread referring to Alan Greenspan's support of her ideas. Whether the conservatives here are posting about her or support her is irrelevant, I don't see conservatives as a homogenous group. It would be nice if they would return the favor to the other side, but that would be far too liberal, I imagine :wink:

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

19 Apr 2011, 7:16 am

Vigilans wrote:

Notice how quickly it turned into a "blame all the world's ills on Ayn Rand" fest though. Pay attention to who brings up Ayn Rand on this forum, it's always the same (or same types) of people, and they're not the ones so supposedly in thrall to her. It's kind of in the same vein as the multiple threads trashing Rush Limbaugh going on right now, for all that conservatives are supposed to be controlled by this guy, look who keeps bringing him up (and no one really seems to care much about the trashing either).

Also, while it's nice to see someone differentiating out a political group, it sort of ruins the effect when you then attribute a homogeneous opinion to them. It's unfortunate that one of the loudest conservative (?) voices on this forum happens to lump all liberals together and attribute all sorts of sins to them, but that's hardly representative of conservatives as a whole. Now partisans of both sides do this all the time, but I for one don't particularly care much for partisans and what they (don't) think.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 71
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

19 Apr 2011, 7:51 am

Dox47 wrote:

Blame it on Lame Ayn topic

Yeah, we love to hate Ayn. Convenience has its virtures. :mrgreen:

But in all seriousness, simplistic solutions to complex economic questions is adolescent romanticism. There is no Platonic Ideal Economy Form in the guise of a Nietszchean Ubermench (or John Galt) to rescue America.

_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo

cdfox7
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,700

19 Apr 2011, 9:07 am

sartresue wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Blame it on Lame Ayn topic

Yeah, we love to hate Ayn. Convenience has its virtures. :mrgreen:

From the sound of things Ayn mixed up Nietzsche's Übermensch with Camus' Sisyhus. So its fair to say that Objectivism is economic Absurdism in action.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

19 Apr 2011, 9:14 am

Dox47 wrote:

So, Ayn Rand looks like a man and writes like Hitler? Clever...

Her writing is a very selfish style that is like Hitler's. She's ranting...the only difference is that she turned it into a fictionalized story rather than directly attributing the struggles to herself. She still ends up having poor vision for what caused her problems and ends up creating an overly simplistic solution that's more destructive than helpful. I don't think the equation is inaccurate when comparing the two's writing.

There's also a distinct lack of interest in the actual reader of the material.

Page 2 of 4 [ 57 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Jump to:

When Alan Met Ayn: "Atlas Shrugged" And Our Tanked Post Reply New Topic

When Alan Met Ayn: "Atlas Shrugged" And Our Tanked