A response to proposed Medicare cuts.

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Master_Pedant
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20 May 2011, 7:27 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

I suspect the Republicans will lose a lot of "ruveyn voters" who think most tax dollars go to bums but get really upset when the state decides to remove their own safety net with draconian, cost-cutting measures.

The video is funny 'cause it's true.

Well one could pair those cost cutting measures with tax increases as well. Pair Obama's plan for prosperity with Paul Ryan's plan for prosperity, and wherein Ryan's will still leave us with a budget deficit, tax-increases can make up for the rest and to support some programs that help most Americans agree to support - note... Americans should vote on whether to support with their tax dollars certain programs or not (including our military budget).

That is a compromise that most Americans would be willing to vote for. Neither party is, sadly, willing to be that voice for reason and support that.

There's another plan I think Americans would prefer.

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Awesomelyglorious
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20 May 2011, 7:28 pm

aghogday wrote:

I'm just guessing, but I doubt Ruevyn has a problem with privatization of Medicare. Or, privatization of anything else the government does except for a few core responsibilities. I also like his presentation of a video without inferring a judgement. When a judgement is presented on the topic of a discussion it often molds a discussion.

Case in point, a topic on posted in general discussion on a letter posted on Autism Speaks Facebook page ended up as a strong pro and con conversation, because a few people entered in and presented the opposing view. Whereas another topic recently presented titled do you like Autism Speaks and why, brought almost exclusive negative opinions.

Reuvyn is getting a wide range of answers that he might not have gotten, if he said this video is cr*p. Not surprising that some are guessing that he is in agreement with the video because, we are aware of his age. A natural bias from what we ourselves understand about older people and their general satisfaction with Medicare.

I can see why you'd give him that benefit of the doubt... but, I honestly don't think ruveyn is a consistent thinker on many topics. I think others have noted this perceived inconsistency, such as I think M_P has perceived both a very rights-oriented view and an opposition to such idealistic thinking.(which is right, and it is a seeming contradiction)

aghogday
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20 May 2011, 7:37 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

aghogday wrote:

I can see why you'd give him that benefit of the doubt... but, I honestly don't think ruveyn is a consistent thinker on many topics.

I might not always agree with his opinions, but his opinions seem pretty consistent to me. He rarely beats around the bush about anything; and is about as quick minded as anyone here. If I were to live long enough I might come to agree with more of his opinions with further experience and wisdom.

Master_Pedant
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20 May 2011, 7:41 pm

aghogday wrote:

Come ...... ON!! !!

Ruveyn, when referring to the Islamic world, said that the US conquored Native Americans but has every right to us it's state apparatus against Mexican immigrats to prevent something similar from happening because "Might Makes Right". Later, he complained about Muslims violating peoples' "right to free speech".

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Last edited by Master_Pedant on 20 May 2011, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MarketAndChurch
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20 May 2011, 7:44 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

There's another plan I think Americans would prefer.

Why do you say Americans would prefer it over mine or the Obama or Ryan proposals? Do you know of an infographic showing how it, Obama, and Ryan differ? I'm going to read it, and for those who want to check it out:

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm ... ntree=5,70

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Awesomelyglorious
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20 May 2011, 7:46 pm

aghogday wrote:

I have to dissent. His outright pragmatic view with a lack of regard for "rights" is not compatible with any notion of property rights as basic.

I suppose you admire him a bit more than I do though.

Master_Pedant
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20 May 2011, 7:52 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

MarketAndChurch wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

There's another plan I think Americans would prefer.

I'm not sure. But I think there'd probably be a difference if people were given specific elements of both plans and asked to vote on them individually than if they were just told that there was a "Republican plan" and an "Obama plan".

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pandabear
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20 May 2011, 8:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Please have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1 ... e=youtu.be

ruveyn

This is just ridiculous. You criticize and lambaste EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAM, REGARDLESS OF MERIT, yet your medicare is defended? ruveyn, maybe I am wrong, but this seems like hypocrisy. I mean, if nearly everything else the government does is theft, then taking my money away to give it to some sick old fart is as much theft as anything else. And if that's acceptable, then why not the rest? I mean, is the line whether you benefit or not from a program? Obviously not, and if you are of the opinion that it is, then that's a stronger case for ending medicare than any case I could ever imagine, as I have no reason to care to support an outright hypocritical old fool.

I thought that Old Ruveyn was just being sarcastic. What does HE need Medicare for?

aghogday
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20 May 2011, 8:02 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

aghogday wrote:

Come ...... ON!! !!

Ruveyn, when referring to Mexican immigration, said that the US displaced Native Americans but has every right to us it's state apparatus against Mexican immigrats to prevent something similar from happening because "Might Makes Right". Later, he complained about Muslims violating peoples' "right to free speech".

Those are strong opinions, given more detail of the context I would probably disagree with them, but his opinions are very likely influenced by living in a time much different than most of us have experienced here. I take that in consideration, with many of his opinions, and respect the fact that I haven't been there done that, as he indicates that he has. I worked on a military installation and many of the people that I was associated with were from that "greatest generation" era, and it was evident that the way they saw the world was much different than I did, even back in the 80's.

The three people I have some of the most respect for are Philologos, Reuvyn, and Sand. They made it with a form of Autism into their late 60's, 70's and 80's with success. And they keep up with people in their twenties. That in itself deserves a medal and a letter of commendation.

simon_says
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20 May 2011, 8:12 pm

The response from the voters to Ryan is via the polls. They hate the plan. The Republicans in the Senate are running from it now. It's DOA.

aghogday
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20 May 2011, 8:42 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

aghogday wrote:

I have to dissent. His outright pragmatic view with a lack of regard for "rights" is not compatible with any notion of property rights as basic.

I suppose you admire him a bit more than I do though.

I strongly disagree with some of his opinions and certainly don't admire the substance of some of those opinions, but they are fairly predictable. Consistent opinions don't always have logical roots. I respect him as an individual, flawed like the rest of us.

ruveyn
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20 May 2011, 8:47 pm

pandabear wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Please have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1 ... e=youtu.be

ruveyn

I thought that Old Ruveyn was just being sarcastic. What does HE need Medicare for?

I paid for it so I use it.

ruveyn

pandabear
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20 May 2011, 9:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:

I paid for it so I use it.

ruveyn

Maybe so, but it is still a government program. Doesn't that alone make it awful?

ruveyn
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21 May 2011, 3:46 am

pandabear wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I paid for it so I use it.

ruveyn

Maybe so, but it is still a government program. Doesn't that alone make it awful?

If the government would get the hell out of the way, there would be affordable strictly private sorts of medical care insurance. Medicate is not my idea of how to provide care for those who need it, but the government has made other alternatives virtually impossible or infeasible.

It is galling. I am in the position that if I do not make use of programs I oppose on ethical grounds I will be a DOUBLE loser. I not only will pay the taxes, but I won't get any benefits. The price of moral purity is financial pain which I am not willing to bear.

ruveyn

Dark_Lord_2008
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21 May 2011, 5:13 am

The Republican conservatives do not care about society, they only care what's in it for corporate interests, Middle classes and they do not see how a universal health system could help improve society. Republicans do not care about anyone else except for themselves. Republicans are immoral to not care about the well being others. Social responsibility and social justice are values the Republicans do not believe in. They only believe in individual responsibility and corporate interests being more valuable that social benefits.

Personal bankruptcies and homelessness are linked to unaffordable private only health system in America. The bottom half of Americans simply can not afford expensive private health and the rip off fees doctors/surgeons charge. Operations must be paid up front in full in America before the operation takes place or no operation.

Private health and the high fees they charge is extortion. National Health Services in Europe and other places around the world have helped benefit the well being of citizens at lower costs. European nation's have social responsibility and care about their citizens well being. In America it is a dog eat dog society, everyone for themselves and no public health system to take care of the bottom half of society.

America remains one of the only western world nations to not have a National Public health system to compliment the private system. A Public and private health system can both exist to provide health services to the whole society not just those who can afford to pay for it out of their own pocket. It is highly unlikely a National Health system will ever be implemented in America because it spends so much money on maintaining its 200 military bases to police the world and keep its corporate interests safe and secure.

The top half of Americans do not care about the bottom half of the class system. The class warfare system in America continues and social injustice is widespread in America. The dilapidated Public school system is under-funded and harvests the lower socio-economic classes trapped in a life of struggle. On the other hand the private school system in America that chews up lots of funds leads the world in high standards. The bottom half must pay for the top half of American society and the class divide clearly reflects the disparity and social injustices.

A child born in a rich family is advantaged from cradle to grave over a child born from a poor family who must struggle every step of the way without any assistance. The family you were born in makes a huge difference in regards to your future success, social networks and opportunities in life.

ruveyn
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21 May 2011, 8:50 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

A child born in a rich family is advantaged from cradle to grave over a child born from a poor family who must struggle every step of the way without any assistance. The family you were born in makes a huge difference in regards to your future success, social networks and opportunities in life.

It is clear that it is better to be Rich than to be Poor. Here is the cure for Poverty: Stop being Poor.

ruveyn

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