Homeopathy is stronger than antidepresants/antipsychotics

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Well these are the symptoms from taking "dilute" Stramonium

**People who respond best to Stramonium may experience rage and violence, particularly sudden outbursts accompanied by strong fears. The anger may be rooted in profound fear, following abuse or an accident. The fear may take the form of terror of the dark or of water. Those affected may also manifest hyperactive or overt sexuality. They are prone to stammering, and may have religious delusions, praying and proselytizing incessantly. Sleep may exacerbate symptoms.**

I'll repeat what I said earlier - this is probably what is giving Johnny his suicidal thoughts....

The bottom line is the dilution. If it is diluted in normal culinary terms it could well cause nasty effects. The point I'm making is that homoeopathy generally means that a substance has been diluted to such a massive extent that none of the active ingredients are even present in the final "medicine". The homoeopathic "medicines" are normally 100% pure water and work only by placebo effect.

Take 6 drops of a substance in this case Stramonium. C14H20N2O2 (Stramonium leaf consists of the dried leaf or of the dried
leaf, flowering tops and occasionally, fruit-bearing tops of Datura stramonium L. and its varieties. It contains not less than 0.25 per cent of total alkaloids,
Dilute in ten drops of base (filtered water) shake
Take one drop of the substance +base and dilute with 10 dopes of base shake. Repeat ten times taking one drop of the result and diluting again with ten drops of pure water (base)

Or 0.0000000006% of the first solution of Stramonium.
Sell for £5 a bottle.

I neither take the stuff nor sell it.

The extract I posted earlier is from a homeopathic website advocating that for Stramonium to work it must give you a violent reaction. Secondly they refer to it as a strong hallucinogen.

My bold
the Nail has been hit firmly on its head

Datura stramonium is a rave drug popular in the Southwest. It is also a weed plant found thoughout most of North America. It takes a fairly high dose to cause the reactions you've stated. And,like many of the other plants and active substances used in homeopathy, it is greatly diluted in order to mediate its effect. That list of stamonium side effects is the common drug overdose list... it also has therapeutic effects as well.

Datura stramonium

Just becasue you do not understand how a medacine works doesn't mean it is not effective. Case in point - antidepressants. They can't tell you exactly HOW SSRI's work only that they do.

Wait a second, are they convincing people to buy that pisswaser by promising they'll have a violent reaction and possibly hallucinations?

Or don't as is the case with most SSRIs (for mild to moderate depression) . Ok many people get benefit from taking them SSRIs but taking Placebos will give equal benefit, for all but the most severe depression, this is where the SSRIs come into their own.
And the experts know how they work and why they work, they just don’t know the whole story

No, on the one hand they are telling you that the whole plant will "have a violent reaction and possibly hallucinations" but on the other hand they are saying that 0.00000000006% dilution will help you because of the memory of the drug will when mixed with water help to cure you of what ails you.

Last edited by Tadpole on 09 Jun 2011, 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

If it works and causes no harm - does it matter? If doctors could patent the placebo effect don't you think they would. If a patient gets relief from a psychiatric condition through the placebo effect WHY would you want to point that out to them. A disordered mind found a method by which to reorder itself. If the placebo effect effect cured an inoperable cancer would you try and talk 'some sense' into the cured patient?

Homeopathy relies on a method that cannot be proven by science. So does acupuncture. Yet, many hospitals now have acupuncture clinics on site because they find them extremely effective. The method relies on unclogging 'energy pathways' in the body. Science cannot PROVE these energy pathways exist or that chi is real yet - it works. Even on the staunchest skeptics. Is that placebo or perhaps something science isn't able to measure yet?

If homeopathy was some guy filling a bottle from the tap in his kitchen - I'd agree. But it's not. Maybe they do have an effect we cannot yet measure. Maybe they are rubbish. But, if it works, does it matter?

The active ingredients in Stramonium are atropine, hyoscyamine and scopolamine. These substances typically produce a complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy (delirium, as contrasted to hallucination); hyperthermia (fever); tachycardia (rapid heart rate); bizarre, and possibly violent behavior; and severe mydriasis (dilation of the pupils) with resultant painful photophobia (sensitivity to light) that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly reported effect.

Atropine is extracted from deadly nightshade ("Belladonna"), jimsonweed, and mandrake. Effects include fibrillation (rapid heart flutter), tachycardia (rapid pulse), dizziness, nausea, blurred vision, loss of balance, dilated pupils, photophobia, dry mouth and potentially extreme confusion, dissociative hallucinations and excitation especially amongst the elderly.

Hyoscyamine is similar to atropine. It is found in henbane, mandrake, jimsonweed, and deadly nightshade ("Belladonna"). Effects include dry mouth and throat, eye pain, blurred vision, restlessness, dizziness, arrythmia (irregular heartbeat), flushing, and faintness. An overdose will cause headache, nausea, vomiting, disorientation, hallucinations, euphoria, short-term memory loss, and possible coma in extreme cases. Some people can experience transient combativeness.

Scopolamine is found in henbane, jimson weed, angel's trumpets, and corkwood. Effects are dry mouth, throat and nasal passages; impaired speech, thirst, blurred vision and sensitivity to light, constipation, difficulty urinating, tachycardia (rapid pulse), flushing and fever, as well as excitement, restlessness, hallucinations, and delirium.

I can think of more pleasant ways to die.

To tell you the truth i was scared when i learned about Datura Stramonium on the internet after a while after i got the homeopathic remedy.No wonder the reaction of members here.

digitoxin - a cardiac glycoside obtained from leaves of Digitalis purpurea. Digitoxin differs in many ways from digoxin, including having a far greater half-life and a different route of elimination.
indications It is prescribed in the treatment of congestive heart failure and certain cardiac arrhythmias.
contraindications Ventricular fibrillation, ventricular tachycardia, or known hypersensitivity to this drug prohibits its use.
adverse effects The most serious adverse reactions are cardiac arrhythmias and heart block, disorientation, and visual disturbances.

Symptoms of overdose may be vague, particularly in the elderly.
•Eyes, ears, nose, and throat
◦Blurred vision
◦Halos around objects (yellow, green, white) *
•Skin
◦Allergic reaction (see: Stevens-Johnson syndrome)
◦Hives
◦Rash
•Gastrointestinal
◦Diarrhea
◦Loss of appetite*
◦Nausea
◦Stomach pain
◦Vomiting
•Heart and blood
◦Irregular heartbeat (or slow)
◦Weakness
•Nervous system
◦Confusion
◦Depression*
◦Disorientation
◦Drowsiness
◦Fainting
◦Hallucinations*
◦Headache
◦Lethargy
•Psychological system
◦Apathy (not caring what happens)
* These symptoms are usually only seen with chronic overdose cases.

Digitalis is one of the most widely used plant based drugs in treating congestive heart failure. It all depends on the dose.

Most kitchens have a potent and potentially lethal hallucinogen sitting in the cabinet right now.
Here are your overdose side effects:

•Fever
•Palpitations
•Hallucinations
•Nausea
•Dry mouth combined with excessive thirst
•Abdominal spasms
•Convulsions
•Dizziness
•Body Pain
•Dehydration
•Constipation
•Insomnia
•Irritation of the skin
•Lack of energy and motor skills
•Slurred speech and social withdrawal
•Seizures
•Damage to the liver

All from too much nutmeg. Again, quantity of dosage is key. Two whole nutmegs are enough to kill a child. That tin or bottle of nutmeg in your cabinet - a potent hallucinogen but only in near fatal dosage. A teaspoon of nutmeg in your Christmas cookies... tasty and harmless. We ingest potentially harmful toxins from our foods daily... two teaspoons of pure salt could kill you. Tomatoes and poteotes are a members of the belladonna family with soem of the same dangerous alkaloids present in the rest of the family. Again - quantity is important. Nightshade family plants are usually removed from the diets of those with inflammitory diseases especially in the joints.

Acupuncture does work by scientific principles, but the "energy" isn't something mystical - it's nerves, blood vessels and such.
http://thehealthyskeptic.org/chinese-me ... l-debunked

And yes, homeopathy is "just" placebo, but so are SSRIs. And the SSRIs have negative effects, which the other treatments don't.
http://thehealthyskeptic.org/treating-d ... ugs-part-i

So you go along with
In every crowd there is a silver lining BT Barnum
and Never Give a Sucker an Even Break, (WC fields 1936)
and
"fool and his money, be soon at debate: which after with sorrow, repents him to late". (Thomas Tusser 1573)

Take
your average dose of digitalis (between 2 to 8 micrograms per kg of body weight indicated) divide the result by 4, add one quarter to IV bag (500ml 0.9% sodium chloride ) and give to sick person, repeat over 8 hours and that person will get benefit from it.

Take
Single drop of diluted digitalis, and add to 10ml of pure water shake, dilute, shake, dilute (repeat ten times) and there will be no benefit derived. Other than you ( that’s the generic you, not you you) making £5 per person that you “treat”, and in doing so preventing them from seeking proper treatment leading (possible) to their eventual death.

Last edited by Tadpole on 09 Jun 2011, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

It is said that emotions and pain are very closely connected in the brain. Sometimes believing the pain away would be enough. I have been in many situations where I have had both severe physical pain and emotional pain. While emotional pain is harder to ignore I've managed to keep myself together. If the physical pain is internal and so very severe that I pray for a quick death or I will take some heavy painkillers. Codeine ain't no placebo. I should know because after one I can still experience pain.

I couldn't be more relieved that everyone here knows homeopathic medicine is bogus.