Stealing

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Philologos
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17 Jun 2011, 4:21 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Today, my wife's car was ransacked and some of our possessions stolen. I want to obliterate the universe. Does anyone think that theft is acceptable?

On a more serious note - wanting neither to belittle nor to overplay your righteous indignation and sense of violation - years ago in a foreign land I was set upon by a gang of thugs armed with machetes [shortbladed local versions, fortunately]. Shortening a long - endless - experience, I got out of it alive but with three good and freely bleeding cuts on the head.

At best they could MAYBE have gotten about the equivalent of $20 - junior Linguistic faculty do not have stuffed wallets. In fact, all I lost besides blood and a smashed earpiece on my glasses was a folding umbrella I dropped - and I suspect soebody other than the attackers got that.

As you say, not the brightest. Some of us are in little danger from INTELLIGENT criminals.

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17 Jun 2011, 4:26 pm

Moog wrote:

Not really, cos I can't do anything about my thermal energy dissipating, and besides, if it didn't I'd die of overheating. You could say that the universe is stealing your thermal energy, but there's no lawyer would take that case. :lol:

There's a big difference between shedding 'my' matter and energy naturally, and having someone take a chunk of it against my will.

I don't think anyone considers air conditioning as a form of stealing. Maybe we should try and convince people they are having their thermal energy stolen in workplaces and business premises. I can see humour in that.

didnt you borrow the energy from the universe to begin with?

did that lease not entail the same rights for all conscoiusness?

wouldnt that mean that most humans today steal in one form or the other from someone along the line, even if not immediately apparant?

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Moog
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17 Jun 2011, 4:31 pm

Oodain wrote:

didnt you borrow the energy from the universe to begin with?

Is borrowing stealing? We're all going to give it back eventually... :lol:

So maybe there's no such thing as stealing? Or stealing can only be possible as a product of being a conscious creature with an ego or sense of selfness. An antelope probably doesn't consider a Lion eating it to be stealing. :shrug:

Hey Leo, gimme back my shiz yo

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Oodain
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17 Jun 2011, 5:03 pm

Moog wrote:

Oodain wrote:

didnt you borrow the energy from the universe to begin with?

Is borrowing stealing? We're all going to give it back eventually... :lol:

Hey Leo, gimme back my shiz yo

depends on who you borrow from and if they change their mind or not

well if everything belongs to the universe is it in your right to take claim of anything?

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pree10shun
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17 Jun 2011, 5:04 pm

Oodain wrote:

Moog wrote:

Oodain wrote:

didnt you borrow the energy from the universe to begin with?

Is borrowing stealing? We're all going to give it back eventually... :lol:

Hey Leo, gimme back my shiz yo

depends on who you borrow from and if they change their mind or not

well if everything belongs to the universe is it in your right to take claim of anything?

If you've worked hard for it why not? Lol this will go in circles now just like everything in the universe does!

iamnotaparakeet
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17 Jun 2011, 5:06 pm

Oodain wrote:

well if everything belongs to the universe is it in your right to take claim of anything?

I then make claim to the planets Mercury, Mars, Pluto, Ceres, Sedna, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. As well as the star systems of Alpha Centauri and Tau Ceti.

Oodain
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17 Jun 2011, 5:13 pm

pree10shun wrote:

Oodain wrote:

Moog wrote:

Oodain wrote:

didnt you borrow the energy from the universe to begin with?

Is borrowing stealing? We're all going to give it back eventually... :lol:

Hey Leo, gimme back my shiz yo

depends on who you borrow from and if they change their mind or not

well if everything belongs to the universe is it in your right to take claim of anything?

If you've worked hard for it why not? Lol this will go in circles now just like everything in the universe does!

a lot of people work hard every day without much reward, society of today is based on raw materials.
i agree if you actually worked hard you deserve the fruits of your labor but today many insist on keeping the whole plantation.
i also think people should recognise that they might be using a resource but it doesnt make it theirs.

stealing is a symptom of an imabalance in our relationship with material goods, (sure there is also a good chunk of thiefs that have a very disproportionate view on what they deserve)

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marshall
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17 Jun 2011, 5:32 pm

I've had my car broken into before. Replacing the broken glass was more expensive and annoying than the stolen item itself. Such a waste. I learned my lesson to never leave anything of value in plain sight, even when you're parked out in the middle of nowhere at some secluded campground or trail head.

I also found a mail package my parents had sent to me opened, rummaged through, and dumped in the bushes halfway down the block. The only people that had access to the mail room were the workers in my apartment building. I was pissed when I confronted the head construction supervisor and he wouldn't do anything. A couple days later I learned that he was fired and the workers were gone. Don't know if it was related.

ruveyn
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17 Jun 2011, 5:45 pm

Oodain wrote:

well everything you own is based on that of tohers and in some cases by causation is the same as stealing, nothing is that simple when dealing with humans.

That is word salad nonsense. Theft = taking from others what is not yours by stealth, force or fraud. That is theft. Getting a windfall benefit or an unlooked for unsought legal benefit is not theft. It may not be just, but it isn't theft either.

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17 Jun 2011, 6:18 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Oodain wrote:

well everything you own is based on that of tohers and in some cases by causation is the same as stealing, nothing is that simple when dealing with humans.

that view would require all laws to be similar everywhere involved to be consistent, it is not.

though as mentioned before when relating to the real world i think people do have a right to their possesions, but they also hold a responsibility to their surroundings, something many apparantly dont act on.
of course theft is wrong but i also think we have to be carefull when deciding who is to blame and to what degree.
most theft is nothing more than human greed but there are scenarios where the theft is desirable to the alternatives.(dont know how much goes on where, in denmark i bet virtually all theft is out of pure greed, anyone can get help with basic amenities if they want to)

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iamnotaparakeet
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17 Jun 2011, 6:22 pm

Oodain wrote:

that view would require all laws to be similar everywhere involved to be consistent, it is not.

Theft is wrong everywhere, regardless of whether the laws of the land say so or not.

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17 Jun 2011, 6:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Oodain wrote:

that view would require all laws to be similar everywhere involved to be consistent, it is not.

Theft is wrong everywhere, regardless of whether the laws of the land say so or not.

excactly my point,

when we exploit various parts of the world with a disproportionate pay to their work effort and risk, are we not stealing?

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blunnet
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17 Jun 2011, 6:32 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Oodain wrote:

that view would require all laws to be similar everywhere involved to be consistent, it is not.

Theft is wrong everywhere, regardless of whether the laws of the land say so or not.

How theft is wrong if the laws of the land doesn't say so?

Anyway, the issue is that theft can go broader than this (and this is the PPR forum), such as related to economic systems, capitalism vs socialism for example, yeah, socialism and marxism may have a different notion of theft for example and so on, history regarding conquering of lands, etc.

So I think Oodain has a point.

iamnotaparakeet
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17 Jun 2011, 6:33 pm

Oodain wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Oodain wrote:

that view would require all laws to be similar everywhere involved to be consistent, it is not.

Theft is wrong everywhere, regardless of whether the laws of the land say so or not.

excactly my point,

when we exploit various parts of the world with a disproportionate pay to their work effort and risk, are we not stealing?

I would consider the executives to be taking more than their fair share but, no, we are not stealing because I am not stealing. Also, I don't shop at Wal-Mart or any other store that I know uses slave labor. My wife and I pay more for our groceries and end up barely being able to eat each day some months. If people think that they have a right to steal from me because their employer isn't paying them enough, they are wrong.

blunnet
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17 Jun 2011, 6:42 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

If people think that they have a right to steal from me because their employer isn't paying them enough, they are wrong.

Some would believe that that is an imbalance of justice, and may justify themselves on it.

iamnotaparakeet
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17 Jun 2011, 6:47 pm

blunnet wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

If people think that they have a right to steal from me because their employer isn't paying them enough, they are wrong.

Some would believe that that is an imbalance of justice, and may justify themselves on it.

Oh, so if they see justice as being imbalanced by others, then it's perfectly fine with furthering justice's imbalance while they benefit themselves at others' expense?

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