Is waterboarding torture?

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24 Jul 2011, 9:18 pm

After the Second World War, Japanese war criminals were prosecuted for water boarding American and other allied prisoners of war. I think that answers the question with a resounding YES!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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25 Jul 2011, 1:03 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

BS, the amount of false leads generated by torture means its use is counter productive, and therefore bordering on useless, and if you seriously believe that bin laden was hunted done as a result of torture rather than a tip off from within the Pakistani government or state apparatus you need to wake up to the machinations of our governments

What about the occasional true lead? In a war, people do war-like things. Any means that achieves a just end is as just as the end achieved.

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25 Jul 2011, 2:00 am

ruveyn wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

What about the occasional true lead? In a war, people do war-like things. Any means that achieves a just end is as just as the end achieved.

ruveyn

The best American interrogators during WWII didn't have to resort to torture. And actually, the information leading to Bin Laden's whereabouts was gleaned by more humane means, when water boarding in fact failed to get any results.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

iamnotaparakeet
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25 Jul 2011, 3:57 am

Does it leave any physical damage? Is it only psychological damage, something which those undergoing waterboarding due to assisting jihadists would more than likely have already?

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25 Jul 2011, 4:09 am

ruveyn wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

What about the occasional true lead? In a war, people do war-like things. Any means that achieves a just end is as just as the end achieved.

ruveyn

Germ warfare (blankets infected with smallpox) and chemical warfare (mustard gas, chlorine gas, sarin, dirty bombs) work pretty damn well; why don't we use them any more? All's fair in war, right? ...right?
(/sarcasm)

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25 Jul 2011, 4:17 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Does it leave any physical damage? Is it only psychological damage, something which those undergoing waterboarding due to assisting jihadists would more than likely have already?

Whether it leaves physical or psychological damage is irrelevant. We're Americans, which means we're supposed to be above torture.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Chevand
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25 Jul 2011, 5:10 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

I actually never gave it much thought until a certain Mythbusters episode.

Kary Byron is usually very happy to do odd things, but after water boarding she was VERY distressed. That thing must be just horrible.

To be fair (and accurate)-- the myth she was testing was not about the practice of waterboarding as has been practiced in American military interrogations, but rather a form of torture known as Chinese water torture. They're somewhat similar, but they have completely different executions (and consequently, different effects).

The Chinese water torture method involves a slow drip of water on the forehead. The point is to direct the focus of the victim toward the anticipation of the next drop to fall. It can cause psychological distress, but physically it's not very dangerous (save for maybe injuries one might sustain while trying to get free of one's restraints). On the other hand, the practice of waterboarding induces a feeling of drowning in the victim. The subject is led to believe he or she is in peril of being killed unless the pertinent information is divulged. It's far more severe than what Ms. Byron experienced on the show.

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NeantHumain
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25 Jul 2011, 8:10 am

You need a third option:
It is just when committed by the U.S. and her allies in the name of the war on terror, but it is torture for everyone else. Talk to John Yoo for details on how this makes sense.

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25 Jul 2011, 8:25 am

LKL wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

What about the occasional true lead? In a war, people do war-like things. Any means that achieves a just end is as just as the end achieved.

ruveyn

Harry Truman authorized the use of poison gas in Japan if we had to invade. Like I said: Whatever it takes.

ruveyn

Philologos
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25 Jul 2011, 9:24 am

ruveyn wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

What about the occasional true lead? In a war, people do war-like things. Any means that achieves a just end is as just as the end achieved.

ruveyn

Bloedig ell, mun, go buy a second hand mind and learn to use it.

Anyway - how can you with your vaunted materialism even use a value word? Or are you sarcastically and above most heads suggesting that when jaguar eats kudu "justice" does not enter into it?

leejosepho
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25 Jul 2011, 9:32 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Does it leave any physical damage?

It certainly would in my own case: My levels of anxiety and stress would become elevated to a point of either having an artery in my head explode or complete heart failure.

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Last edited by leejosepho on 25 Jul 2011, 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

leejosepho
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25 Jul 2011, 9:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Does it leave any physical damage? Is it only psychological damage, something which those undergoing waterboarding due to assisting jihadists would more than likely have already?

Whether it leaves physical or psychological damage is irrelevant. We're Americans, which means we're supposed to be above torture.

Partly seriously and partly sarcastically: Maybe we should just pay them to tell us what we want to know?

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Last edited by leejosepho on 25 Jul 2011, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

bridgete2010
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25 Jul 2011, 9:48 am

Not sure about the whole Osama Bin Laden thing as mentioned earlier... since I, unlike most, will admit I know virtually nothing on the topic.
However, IMHO. I believe waterboarding is torture. its used liberally in some cases, And for that I dont agree with.

However, I support its usage in very, very rare situations.

Such as, when someone admits to a crime that could be repeated again, yet doesnt want to "out" their cohorts.

then... im not sure. first, investigate to find them. if no leads. . then I suppose it is mandatory.

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25 Jul 2011, 9:51 am

ruveyn wrote:

Harry Truman authorized the use of poison gas in Japan if we had to invade. Like I said: Whatever it takes.

ruveyn

But, he didn't use poison gas in Europe, because it would have killed too many White people.

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25 Jul 2011, 10:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Does it leave any physical damage? Is it only psychological damage, something which those undergoing waterboarding due to assisting jihadists would more than likely have already?

Whether it leaves physical or psychological damage is irrelevant. We're Americans, which means we're supposed to be above torture.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Then why do with have the IRS?

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25 Jul 2011, 11:12 am

pandabear wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Harry Truman authorized the use of poison gas in Japan if we had to invade. Like I said: Whatever it takes.

ruveyn

But, he didn't use poison gas in Europe, because it would have killed too many White people.

Possibly. Or perhaps the Germans who were loaded to the gunnels with tabun gas would have retaliated in kind.

ruveyn

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