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Fnord
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07 Aug 2011, 4:54 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

I can hardly wait until the next General Election; but this impatience is tempered by the realization that not one current Republican candidate has the chops to do a better job. We're all doomed! Doomed, I say!

That's what you get for all those Caribou Barbie jokes...

WRONG!

Those jokes were about Geezer McCain and Caribou Barbie!

:wink:

wcoltd
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07 Aug 2011, 5:30 pm

This downgrade should have happened a long time ago. The US bond rating should be BB- at the highest. The U.S. is in far worse shape than many people make it out to be. These rating agencies are a farce. The sooner they downgrade the better we will be in the long run. All the high ratings do is allow the U.S. government to borrow and waste more money. The debt and all the unfunded obligations are the problem.

Fnord
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07 Aug 2011, 5:35 pm

Yeah ... nothing forces you to live within your income so much as a bad credit rating.

It's about time!

visagrunt
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07 Aug 2011, 5:39 pm

wcoltd wrote:

I think you have allowed yourself to be a little uncritical. Sovereign debt become risky when a national government's external debt starts climbing towards the 60% of GDP range.

What's the United States external debt: about 32% of GDP. Now, that's not to say that intra-government and domesticly held public debt are not serious issues--but money that the US government owes itself, or owes its own economy is a much lower risk to ongoing fiscal viability.

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Inuyasha
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07 Aug 2011, 5:54 pm

Fnord wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

That's what you get for all those Caribou Barbie jokes...

WRONG!

Those jokes were about Geezer McCain and Caribou Barbie!

:wink:

Actually, I can think of 10 people that could do a better job than the current White House occupant.

1. Sarah Palin -- Least she knows how to balance her checkbook
2. Newt Gingrich -- One of the individuals that balanced the Federal Budget.
3. Herman Cain -- Knows how to run a business and thus keep a balanced budget.
4. Michelle Bachman (sp?) -- former tax lawyer, would know how to simplify the tax code.
5. John Boehner -- He actually has run a business before entering politics.
6. George W. Bush -- He may have ran deficits, but Obama's running deficits that makes Bush's deficit spending look like chump change.
7. Bill Clinton -- He balanced the Federal Budget with Newt Gingrich, and was able to put aside his partisanship to work with those in the opposing party.
8. John McCain -- one of the individuals that warned about the housing market.
9. Donald Trump -- Knows how to make a budget and cut spending.
10. Ron Paul -- I really hate to put him on the list, cause I think he's nuts when it comes to foreign policy, but on a domestic front he'd be far better than who is currently in the White House.

Fnord
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07 Aug 2011, 5:57 pm

Too bad they're all in the back pockets of Big Business.

Maybe it's time for a tax revolt?

Inuyasha
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07 Aug 2011, 6:11 pm

Fnord wrote:

Too bad they're all in the back pockets of Big Business.

Maybe it's time for a tax revolt?

Uh since when was Sarah Palin in the back pocket of big business, her record includes royally ticking off big oil, since she forced them to comply with regulations instead of taking kickbacks and letting business continue as usual like a "good little politician."

John McCain isn't in the pocket of big business.

Forgot Senator Coburn which makes #11, he's planning on retiring and thus doesn't care who he ticks off.

LKL
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07 Aug 2011, 9:17 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Too bad they're all in the back pockets of Big Business.

Maybe it's time for a tax revolt?

You're claiming that, "Drill, baby, drill!" Palin is tough on oil companies?

psychohist
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07 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

It's all over the news, so pick your favorite source and look at the top story. If the Republicans had agreed to a balanced plan, we would not have this problem.

More like, if the Republicans had hung tough and refused to increase the debt ceiling, we would not have this problems.

Other problems, yes, but not this problem.

jrjones9933
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07 Aug 2011, 9:27 pm

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

It's all over the news, so pick your favorite source and look at the top story. If the Republicans had agreed to a balanced plan, we would not have this problem.

More like, if the Republicans had hung tough and refused to increase the debt ceiling, we would not have this problems.

Other problems, yes, but not this problem.

The downgrade by S&P, we wouldn't have, srsly?

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Dox47
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07 Aug 2011, 9:36 pm

LKL wrote:

You're claiming that, "Drill, baby, drill!" Palin is tough on oil companies?

Actually, she was. She renegotiated deals with the oil companies that forced them to pay millions, if not billions more to the state of Alaska than they had been previously. Alaskans actually receive a check from the state for their cut of the oil business, kind of like tribal members living on reservations with casinos. Thanks to Sarah Palin, they get bigger checks. Her record in Alaska is very different than the way she's come off on the national scene, there she was more of a bipartisan reformer than a partisan warrior.

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psychohist
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07 Aug 2011, 9:56 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

It's all over the news, so pick your favorite source and look at the top story. If the Republicans had agreed to a balanced plan, we would not have this problem.

More like, if the Republicans had hung tough and refused to increase the debt ceiling, we would not have this problems.

Other problems, yes, but not this problem.

The downgrade by S&P, we wouldn't have, srsly?

The reason S&P downgraded U.S. debt was because of inadequate cutting of projected future spending. S&P wanted a minimum of $4 trillion in cuts; what actually got passed was a little over $2 trillion, and S&P is rightly skeptical of whether the actual budgets, when passed, will reflect those cuts.

If the debt limit hadn't been increased, that would have been a cut of over $10 trillion, well over the amount required to avoid a downgrade by S&P. Assuming Obama would not have been smart enough to continue paying interest on the debt as required by the constitution, bond holders would have been in fine shape.

Now, defense contractors, subsidized agriculture, maybe many federal employees, and other groups, would have been in trouble. Bondholders would have been fine, though, and bonds are what S&P rates.

jrjones9933
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07 Aug 2011, 10:04 pm

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

It's all over the news, so pick your favorite source and look at the top story. If the Republicans had agreed to a balanced plan, we would not have this problem.

More like, if the Republicans had hung tough and refused to increase the debt ceiling, we would not have this problems.

Other problems, yes, but not this problem.

The downgrade by S&P, we wouldn't have, srsly?

Quote:

But S&P says that if the government attempts to dramatically cut spending to stay under the debt ceiling while servicing the debt payments, “we think that the effect on consumer sentiment, market confidence, and, thus, economic growth will likely be detrimental and long lasting.”

That, S&P said, could also lead to a downgrade.

Washington Post

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simon_says
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07 Aug 2011, 10:25 pm

S&P were quite clear that they didn't care what mix of tax increases and spending cuts were agreed to as long as the total reached at least $4 trillion. And they clearly gave a nod to the larger deficit reduction negotiations based around a grand compromise.

And it was the Republicans who wouldn't agree to any revenue. Something Reagan's former budget director finds crazy.

Orwell
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08 Aug 2011, 12:34 am

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

psychohist wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

It's all over the news, so pick your favorite source and look at the top story. If the Republicans had agreed to a balanced plan, we would not have this problem.

More like, if the Republicans had hung tough and refused to increase the debt ceiling, we would not have this problems.

Other problems, yes, but not this problem.

The downgrade by S&P, we wouldn't have, srsly?

Are you honestly delusional enough to think the US could default on its debt without having its credit rating downgraded? Try filing for bankruptcy sometime and see what it does to your credit rating.

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91
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08 Aug 2011, 12:39 am

An interesting math error though:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44051683

I still prefer Warren Buffet's statement on the subject, America deserves a AAAA rating;
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=130921

Not sure who is right though as I am not an economist.

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