The Ant and the Grasshopper: Aesop fable updated.
12 Aug 2011, 8:54 pm
AceOfSpades wrote:
I think it's best to go with concrete examples rather than analogies because with analogies there is way too much discretion when it comes to what you take into account.
All very well and good; me might set up a hierarchy whereby something we [the assembly] have all observed trumps something only the honorable representative from Podunk has observed which trumps something he received as hearsay which trumps a traditional anecdote.
But - don't you know - the user of the parable will by virtue of the human mind select those elements which seem to him ro support his point, while the audience will hear the parable through the filter of their individual mental makeup and react more to what they hear than to what was said.
12 Aug 2011, 9:01 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
iamnotaparakeet
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Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
12 Aug 2011, 9:11 pm
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
Dude, take a chill pill. I've heard coworkers at Wal-Mart talk about how they can only work so many hours or they'll lose their entire social security check, it's reality not fiction. I've known people who get housing for $200 a month, but only as long as they make below a certain amount and as such seek to work only so much. The system they are working within encourages mediocrity, and so long as they keep below a threshold they get rewarded monetarily. People who are truly in need, such as those who are actually homeless and unable to find work, are often pushed to the back of housing queues and given policy based excuses as to why the bureaucrats can't help them find a place to live or work.
12 Aug 2011, 9:24 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
Dude, take a chill pill. I've heard coworkers at Wal-Mart talk about how they can only work so many hours or they'll lose their entire social security check, it's reality not fiction. I've known people who get housing for $200 a month, but only as long as they make below a certain amount and as such seek to work only so much. The system they are working within encourages mediocrity, and so long as they keep below a threshold they get rewarded monetarily. People who are truly in need, such as those who are actually homeless and unable to find work, are often pushed to the back of housing queues and given policy based excuses as to why the bureaucrats can't help them find a place to live or work.
That's not what I'm disputing. The thing is you and Inuyasha keep accusing liberals of not working and being "jealous" of people who "have more money because they work harder". That is a straw man and an ad-hominum. There are LOTS of HARD WORKING liberals out there. You guys keep insulting them.
iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
12 Aug 2011, 9:35 pm
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
Dude, take a chill pill. I've heard coworkers at Wal-Mart talk about how they can only work so many hours or they'll lose their entire social security check, it's reality not fiction. I've known people who get housing for $200 a month, but only as long as they make below a certain amount and as such seek to work only so much. The system they are working within encourages mediocrity, and so long as they keep below a threshold they get rewarded monetarily. People who are truly in need, such as those who are actually homeless and unable to find work, are often pushed to the back of housing queues and given policy based excuses as to why the bureaucrats can't help them find a place to live or work.
That's not what I'm disputing. The thing is you and Inuyasha keep accusing liberals of not working and being "jealous" of people who "have more money because they work harder". That is a straw man and an ad-hominum. There are LOTS of HARD WORKING liberals out there. You guys keep insulting them.
There are those who are jealous and don't work, those who are jealous and do work, those who aren't jealous and don't work, and those who aren't jealous and do work. And I've met people who fit into each situation. Yes, there are lots of hard working liberals out there. There's also lots of hard working conservatives also, who don't like the type of liberals who aren't hard working and yet seek to be liberal with spending money that isn't theirs. But no matter, you want to assume that I don't have a brain and so you will probably only hear whatever confirms your presumptions and ignore anything contrary because by default anything contrary must be false. Or do you care to prove me wrong instead of just continuing on as you are with your rant against conservatives currently directed at me?
12 Aug 2011, 9:37 pm
Philologos wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
I think it's best to go with concrete examples rather than analogies because with analogies there is way too much discretion when it comes to what you take into account.
All very well and good; me might set up a hierarchy whereby something we [the assembly] have all observed trumps something only the honorable representative from Podunk has observed which trumps something he received as hearsay which trumps a traditional anecdote.
But - don't you know - the user of the parable will by virtue of the human mind select those elements which seem to him ro support his point, while the audience will hear the parable through the filter of their individual mental makeup and react more to what they hear than to what was said.
Anyways, yeah it's sad but true.
12 Aug 2011, 11:17 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
There are those who are jealous and don't work, those who are jealous and do work, those who aren't jealous and don't work, and those who aren't jealous and do work. And I've met people who fit into each situation. Yes, there are lots of hard working liberals out there. There's also lots of hard working conservatives also, who don't like the type of liberals who aren't hard working and yet seek to be liberal with spending money that isn't theirs. But no matter, you want to assume that I don't have a brain and so you will probably only hear whatever confirms your presumptions and ignore anything contrary because by default anything contrary must be false. Or do you care to prove me wrong instead of just continuing on as you are with your rant against conservatives currently directed at me?
What if they aren't personaly jealous? What if they just think vast inequalities of wealth and power are bad for society as a whole?
12 Aug 2011, 11:18 pm
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
There are those who are jealous and don't work, those who are jealous and do work, those who aren't jealous and don't work, and those who aren't jealous and do work. And I've met people who fit into each situation. Yes, there are lots of hard working liberals out there. There's also lots of hard working conservatives also, who don't like the type of liberals who aren't hard working and yet seek to be liberal with spending money that isn't theirs. But no matter, you want to assume that I don't have a brain and so you will probably only hear whatever confirms your presumptions and ignore anything contrary because by default anything contrary must be false. Or do you care to prove me wrong instead of just continuing on as you are with your rant against conservatives currently directed at me?
What if they aren't personaly jealous? What if they just think vast inequalities of wealth and power are bad for society as a whole?
Then maybe they need to be evaluated by licensed mental-health professionals.
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
12 Aug 2011, 11:20 pm
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
Dude, take a chill pill. I've heard coworkers at Wal-Mart talk about how they can only work so many hours or they'll lose their entire social security check, it's reality not fiction. I've known people who get housing for $200 a month, but only as long as they make below a certain amount and as such seek to work only so much. The system they are working within encourages mediocrity, and so long as they keep below a threshold they get rewarded monetarily. People who are truly in need, such as those who are actually homeless and unable to find work, are often pushed to the back of housing queues and given policy based excuses as to why the bureaucrats can't help them find a place to live or work.
That's not what I'm disputing. The thing is you and Inuyasha keep accusing liberals of not working and being "jealous" of people who "have more money because they work harder". That is a straw man and an ad-hominum. There are LOTS of HARD WORKING liberals out there. You guys keep insulting them.
I fail to see how this is the fault of Conservatives, in fact Conservatives would be going the route of saying the people working hard deserve help, and those that are just laying on the couch waiting for the next Social Security Check don't.
iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
12 Aug 2011, 11:34 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
I could modify the fable to better represent reality but why should I bother?
Let's see you turn the ant into a greedy scum (which isn't true), and you make the grasshopper into some saintly figure (also would be a lie), then you would try to use it to further your blame the rich agenda.
Sorry, but I highly doubt your modifications would reflect reality, only a far left mindset of reality.
Okay. Here you go...
In the real story a heavy rainstorm washes all the ant's stored supplies away a few days before winter sets in. All the other ants, in hindsight, decide this ant was stupid to build its house where the rain water could get to it. They therefore refuse to share their supplies with this particular ant. They instead decide to share their supplies with the grasshopper because they admire it's wonderful jumping ability. The moral of the story is the ant should have learned from the grasshopper how to jump so it could be accepted by the other ants into their nest.
And a link...
http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/just-world-fallacy/
Knocking over the same old strawman yet again?
Pot calling the kettle black? What use is a cute fable that bears no resemblance to the real world?
Who says it doesn't? Yes, some people lose everything to no fault of their own. This world is not just, but a person who does nothing to earn a living is often jealous of those who have more than they do, and come up with a multitude of reasons as to why they are being discriminated against. If anything, the "just world" of the democrats is one where the "has less" population leaches off from the "has more" population. Those who are actually poor and homeless being ignored practically in favor of supporting craploads of people on a welfare system in which they are encouraged to work only so much or else they'll lose their monthly thousand dollar check from the SS.
Again... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK. DO NOT b***h ABOUT MY SUPPOSED STRAWMAN WHEN STRAWMEN ARE THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE AGAINST! GROW A BRAIN!
Dude, take a chill pill. I've heard coworkers at Wal-Mart talk about how they can only work so many hours or they'll lose their entire social security check, it's reality not fiction. I've known people who get housing for $200 a month, but only as long as they make below a certain amount and as such seek to work only so much. The system they are working within encourages mediocrity, and so long as they keep below a threshold they get rewarded monetarily. People who are truly in need, such as those who are actually homeless and unable to find work, are often pushed to the back of housing queues and given policy based excuses as to why the bureaucrats can't help them find a place to live or work.
That's not what I'm disputing. The thing is you and Inuyasha keep accusing liberals of not working and being "jealous" of people who "have more money because they work harder". That is a straw man and an ad-hominum. There are LOTS of HARD WORKING liberals out there. You guys keep insulting them.
I fail to see how this is the fault of Conservatives, in fact Conservatives would be going the route of saying the people working hard deserve help, and those that are just laying on the couch waiting for the next Social Security Check don't.
Not completely true, as it was when I was living on my own I was working two jobs 14 hours a day and 7 days a week just to make enough on minimum wage to be able to have a cheap motel room and occasionally food. The other workers getting social security checks that I knew would have had to go my route to afford living if they weren't playing the system. However, if such SS welfare were to be done away with then perhaps an increase of minimum wage to a living wage would be more possible.
13 Aug 2011, 10:36 am
AceOfSpades wrote:
Ok you really need to make your posts easier to understand because that took me a while. You could've just said "Firsthand experience carries more weight to people than hearsay and anecdotes. When it comes to parables, people tend to resort to just confirming their bias rather than reading with an open mind. They react to the map their minds have constructed rather than to the satellite image itself"
Anyways, yeah it's sad but true.
Anyways, yeah it's sad but true.
It is also sad but true that I yam what I yam and I talks me talk and walks me walk and it is no easier for me to write like you than for you to write like me. Apart from thinking - your reworking for example does not quite replicate mine. While it is true that many do NOT listen with an open mind, that was not my point here, rather that even where the mind is open it is not empty, and some of the characters in the incoming text may be blanlked out where the fonts do not match.
Myriad examples omitted.
13 Aug 2011, 10:39 am
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Not completely true, as it was when I was living on my own I was working two jobs 14 hours a day and 7 days a week just to make enough on minimum wage to be able to have a cheap motel room and occasionally food. The other workers getting social security checks that I knew would have had to go my route to afford living if they weren't playing the system. However, if such SS welfare were to be done away with then perhaps an increase of minimum wage to a living wage would be more possible.
When you were a child did you walk to school uphill in both directions through five feet of snow even in the spring time?
ruveyn
iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
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13 Aug 2011, 6:37 pm
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Not completely true, as it was when I was living on my own I was working two jobs 14 hours a day and 7 days a week just to make enough on minimum wage to be able to have a cheap motel room and occasionally food. The other workers getting social security checks that I knew would have had to go my route to afford living if they weren't playing the system. However, if such SS welfare were to be done away with then perhaps an increase of minimum wage to a living wage would be more possible.
When you were a child did you walk to school uphill in both directions through five feet of snow even in the spring time?
ruveyn
No, only about 40 feet to the kitchen table after getting the textbooks I needed to study.
13 Aug 2011, 6:54 pm
Philologos wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Ok you really need to make your posts easier to understand because that took me a while. You could've just said "Firsthand experience carries more weight to people than hearsay and anecdotes. When it comes to parables, people tend to resort to just confirming their bias rather than reading with an open mind. They react to the map their minds have constructed rather than to the satellite image itself"
Anyways, yeah it's sad but true.
Anyways, yeah it's sad but true.
It is also sad but true that I yam what I yam and I talks me talk and walks me walk and it is no easier for me to write like you than for you to write like me. Apart from thinking - your reworking for example does not quite replicate mine. While it is true that many do NOT listen with an open mind, that was not my point here, rather that even where the mind is open it is not empty, and some of the characters in the incoming text may be blanlked out where the fonts do not match.
Myriad examples omitted.
