philosophical approach to relationship problems

Post Reply New Topic

Part II - school and physics...

And yes, I too, used to drive my science and maths teachers nuts at school because I frequently knew more than they did. And I'd question them and correct them when they got it wrong. I was seen by the rest of my classmates as teachers' pet and by the teachers as teachers' pest. I found a description of this here - I fit into type II "the challenging"
http://www.aps.edu/aps/gifted/profilechart.html

I have noticed at my old uni that the physics students had started working directly with the pure maths students because the pure maths had more application in the study of stuff like cosmic rays. I think it was cosmic rays. In actual study of physics - for some reason I got bored with rote learning of squillions of formulae that seemed to approximate instead of accurately describe the real world and I really couldn't wrap my head around the concept of the speed of light being constant so time must warp. Though I warp time every day - vast chunks of it disappear I don't know where. I had no problems with the concepts of nuclear physics and converting matter to energy etc. And yet this is related too. I decided physics was not for me and I was not enamoured of the idea of being an academic for life or working in the defence industry which seemed to be the only career options I knew about for physics graduates.

You probably misunderstood what I was referring to by reward/punishment since you were using the word "however". I was trying to employ the concept of reward/punishment in order to explain to myself why I should be trying to allow ppl to have their own opinion. That is, showing them that they are wrong make it into a punishment, so they are punished for interacting with me.



I guess the biggest problem I have with doing it is that sometimes my thought process is the subject of their opinion. So, if I know for a fact that I was thinking A, but they decided that I was thining B, then it would look quite awkward to be trying to "think together" whether it is A or B. After all, by definition, if we are talkign about my mind, I am the one who has better idea. So that is when I feel driven to prove my case since I know that I am right.

Let me reiterate: If we were to talk about politics and religion I don't mind us disagreeing since we are discussing things we have equal access to. But if we are talking about my mind, then I simply don't get how can the other person be closer to truth about something only I have dirrect access to.




But you see, the point is that this flip flop have happened with every single ex I had -- otherwise they wouldn't have been my ex-s. So thats why I don't think dating someone without bipolar is the answer.



I am more than willing to do it *IF* I know that it was in fact an outburst, as opposed to an objective opinion they are calmly believing in and would continue to believe in. Now, I am very trusting person. So if she is to tell me that it was just an outburst, yes I would believe her. But the point is that she didn't tell me that, like I said she was avoiding answering my question.

To support my point, there WERE some things she did due to bipolar and I forgave each and every one of them. For instance, back in spring when she was planning on visitting me she had a dream of a bunch of people meeting her rather than just me, and then sexually abusing her and getting rid of her body. At frist she was actually afraid, but later she told me that it was her bipolar (since her diagnosis is "bipolar with psychotic features" as opposed to simply "bipolar") and she no longer was scared of that. So I forgave her.

Likewise, there was another incident, again in spring, when she sent me an email telling me that she is mad that I was ignoring her emails but its okay becuase "i haven't done it to anyone in real world only to abstract Erin" so now she is going to ignore me too since I am equally abstract. She was referring to the posts that I have written back in 1998 where I was explaining how I make certain posts in message board due to ppl being abstract. I then explained to her that it was 1998 and not now. Afterwards she again told me it was her bipolar and apologised, I accepted it and didn't drag it on.

Here is a point I am trying to say. IF she were to say that her reaction to my behavior in front of her daughter is due to bipolar and she no longer means it, I would look past that as well. But she didn't say it to me that way. So, especially due to the fact that I have Asperger, how can I know that it is her bipolar AS OPPOSED TO my Asperger. After all, due to my Asperger A LOT of people misinterpret me who don't have a bipolar.



Yah this is perfect description of what happeneds in my relationships. If I not 100% sure the relationship will last, then I will read into all the little things that don't even exist and drive the person crazy. On the other hand, if I do feel sure it will last, then I relax and start to do a lot of big mistakes untill I finally ruined it (and I always make "just enough" mistakes to cross a line with this particular individual, and then I am sorry). So it is both bad to be 100% sure that it will last and it is also bad not to be 100% sure about it.

But then it goes back to the fact that I HAVE to be 100% sure since I feel like my life depends on whether or not I am in a relationship. For one thing, having spent in the past so much time on it is one hting that contributed to ruining my studies. I can't undo that part, so now I better be in a relationship that will last forever to compensate with lifelong damage to academic career that I have done. Furthermore, who is to say that when I am single I won't be repeating that exact mistake I did in the past, so I better be with someone to avoid such thing from happening. And I better be 100% sure about the relationship, that way I can focus on my studies as opposed to staring at the textbook while analyzing every little thing that was said in my head.



That is something I want to know too. I mean, from my perspective, Asperger has everything to do both with problems with social skills, obsessiveness, and rigid thinking. So sometimes I feel that may be my Asperger is more severe than Asperger of others. This goes against the fact that Brina Siegel said it is milder, so that is another thing that bothers me. How come I am SUPPOSED to be milder than others but at the same time I have the most difficulty finding a date, them ost rigid thinking, etc. I actually made a poll where I asked ppl this question: http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

It is funny that I had a different girl, Anita, who was workign with severely autistic boy my age, and she also had a lot of experience working with other autistics. However, whenever I was telling her that my questioning her is due to Asperger she was saying that I am using it as an excuse and she doesn't want to hear anything about it.

Okay, so lets make a stretch, suppose she is right and it isn't Asperger. But still, how can I KNOW it, I mean I am not an autism professional. So if she weren't agreeing with me, she coudl have explained to me why she didn't. But she simply was accusing me of using it as an excuse as if I KNOW whether it is Asperger or not. So is Asperger like a chair or table that I can touch?

If someone doesn't understand what is going on in my mind - there are a few possiblities, but usually I think it is because I haven't expressed myself clearly. I said it wrong, not they understood it wrong. It is a fairly useful communication technique for someone to say back to you what they think you meant - and then you can say "no I didn't mean that exactly, I meant this" - and try to pick better words the second time round. Sometimes all that happened was they didn't hear you properly the first time.

Another possibility is that no matter how much you explain and how carefully - they cannot wrap their own head around the concept. This time - they just cannot "get it". Sometimes, they will get it eventually but it will take an extended period of time - and lots of repeating the same explanation over a period of days and weeks - a little bit each day. Like trying to teach Helen Keller to read and write. She just didn't get it the first time. Or the second... Going on for longer and longer on the same day / hour in this case is pointless - you might as well drop it until tomorrow or the next day. Some people will never "get it" about some things and you have to find a way to deal with that and go around it.

Ok - there's no mistaking a bipolar "outburst". Screaming and yelling and completely irrational streams of unpleasant words are the usual mode. So I guess we are talking about some other kind of flip flop.

With the daughter thing - I think that was more your mistake than hers. Not really a bipolar response but a perfectly reasonable motherly protective response to your yelling at her. Sometimes when I get frustrated because someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say - backing off and waiting is a better option than pushing the point harder or yelling.

I already agreed with you if she doesn't tell you what she needs (ideally in advance of when she needs it) it is going to be hard to meet her needs. Ideally - I'd like a person to be letting me know when I've done good and when they'd like me to do something different, as close timewise to the relevant action on my part, as possible.

I think Asperger's is more like an electron - it's there but you can't touch it. When neurologists scan a brain - they can see the energy pattern is different for a person with Aspergers than a Neurotypical person - but they can't tell you exactly what this means and they certainly have no clue why. There are future discoveries to be made here.

I've got theories of my own - but they are only theories. I'm sure as I am of anything (how do we know anything really?) that I think differently to Neurotypical people, the way my brain "connects the dots" is different and sometimes it just doesn't "connect the dots" at all when an NT person would, but at other times it connects many many dots that NT people won't. Hence I think we have deficits in some areas and advantages in other areas of mental ability.

So, unlike NT people (maybe I'm wrong), Asperger's people are usually good at learning bucket loads of sometimes unrelated facts. If we apply this kind of human database storage and processing system to stuff like "relationships" - we learn bucket loads of rules about social interaction - how things are "supposed to be done" for "best results". Using our "database" to find and apply the "appropriate rules" works most of the time. Except when we are too stressed to stop and send off the data retrieval request - and we just go with the most immediate actions in our heads - lots of social trouble. And also except NT people aren't using the same system for appropriate behaviour, and they are always changing the rules - not fair and very frustrating.

All I can do (if I think of it) when I get stressed - is apologise (usually with no idea what I did), and say I had brain fade or was stressed out or having a bad day. When the rules have been changed on me - then I say - this is a new way of doing things for me and ask for detailed explanations. I usually check with other people too. This often catches out the kind of people that bend rules to suit their own purposes ie scam artists and real estate agents. I frighten real estate agents. They keep telling me there are rules, but I know and they know there are none but buyer (and vendor) beware of the agent in my state.

I'd say that your wanting to know everything there is to know about something is very Aspergers, and that your ex-2 knows lots about autistic kids (who often don't even know how to ask a question), but not much about Asperger's kids. In Attwood's list of diagnostics there are several points that could lead to Asperger's asking lots of questions. One is a need for reassurance - what are we doing next? is what I'm doing ok? why did this thing change? Why do we do things this way? etc. Another criteria is a tendency to understand words literally - which can lead to more questions if something is said that doesn't make sense literally. Another criteria is fascination (obsession?) with particular topics - if learning appropriate behaviour is your special interest of the moment - there are going to be loads of questions. Not every Asperger's kid has every trait in the list, but there are three out of twenty-two that would lead to lots of questions.

As for the girlfriend and dates thing - maybe if you find it very distracting then best not to while you still have study - however I found boyfriends so distracting mentally that I did extra study and work to make up for the distractions so did better in the assessments when I did have a boyfriend than when I didn't. Reading what some others around here go through, I think you're doing quite well with girlfriends and there is much potential that you will have another in the future and I think that you will be better at relating to her, at least partly because of what you have learnt from each previous relationship.