Should organ donation be mandatory?

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03 Sep 2011, 12:59 am

Agreed with Ruveyn. The government has no right to my body.

I am a donor btw. Don't need the government to tell me to do so. As with everything, education is to the key. It's deeply personal decision and the departed's wishes should be respected.

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03 Sep 2011, 1:00 am

cave_canem wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I would hesitate to make it mandatory, but I would prefer for the default assumption to be in favor of organ donation, and to allow people to opt out if they object.

I believe in my province (Ontario) there is a drive to make it an "opt-out" system - a much better approach, I agree.

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03 Sep 2011, 1:36 am

cave_canem wrote:

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

I.e. I read recently about some cases of people in a "permanent vegetative state," who, when given a sleeping pill (zolpidem), woke up. So, apparently, determining when someone is brain dead is not an exact science.

I am not medically trained, but I do believe there is a big difference between being in a "permanent vegetative state" and being "clinically brain dead."

I saw the show you are talking about. Those in a vegetative state are still able to breath on their own. Those who are brain dead must rely on machines to keep their body "alive." Without a ventilator, they would suffocate.

I don't think this is true, actually; functions like breathing and heartbeat are controlled by very primitive regions of the brain/brainstem, and a person is 'brain dead' when the cerebrum stops working. I've seen someone whose brain was literally leaking out their ears but still had a heart rate and minimal breathing.

Orwell
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03 Sep 2011, 1:43 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I would hesitate to make it mandatory, but I would prefer for the default assumption to be in favor of organ donation, and to allow people to opt out if they object.

I believe in my province (Ontario) there is a drive to make it an "opt-out" system - a much better approach, I agree.

From what I understand, which way is set as default is the largest determinant of whether people donate or not. In countries where the default is to donate with the option to check a box and opt-out, people will generally agree to be organ donors. If the default is not to donate with the option to opt-in, fewer people will agree.

I don't see any justifiable reason why someone would want to opt out (come on, you're not using it anymore!) but people are weird and irrational about death, so it is probably more sensitive to let them maintain their queer practices if they insist.

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cave_canem
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03 Sep 2011, 6:19 am

LKL wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm not a doctor.

I guess it was because of the show I saw (the one Apple referred to). The people Apple was talking about were clearly not brain dead. I googled it - looks like they were catatonic, not in a vegetative state. There's a big difference between those two conditions, it seems.

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03 Sep 2011, 6:46 am

cave_canem wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I would hesitate to make it mandatory, but I would prefer for the default assumption to be in favor of organ donation, and to allow people to opt out if they object.

I believe in my province (Ontario) there is a drive to make it an "opt-out" system - a much better approach, I agree.

The default should be opt-out. If one wishes to donate his/her parts he/she should make a witnessed declaration to that effect. The State does not own our bodies nor does it have a valid claim on our bodies or parts thereof.

ruveyn

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03 Sep 2011, 12:00 pm

Apparently, no one has figured out yet that this topic is related to the abortion one in the other thread.

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03 Sep 2011, 12:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I would hesitate to make it mandatory, but I would prefer for the default assumption to be in favor of organ donation, and to allow people to opt out if they object.

I believe in my province (Ontario) there is a drive to make it an "opt-out" system - a much better approach, I agree.

A dead man cannot legally hold property. Therefore your corpse does not belong to you, as after death you no longer exist as a legal person.

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03 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm

Orwell wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I would hesitate to make it mandatory, but I would prefer for the default assumption to be in favor of organ donation, and to allow people to opt out if they object.

I believe in my province (Ontario) there is a drive to make it an "opt-out" system - a much better approach, I agree.

A dead man cannot legally hold property. Therefore your corpse does not belong to you, as after death you no longer exist as a legal person.

Though generally, dead people can have last wishes and the living have to honor them. So, when they are alive, they can have a say in how their remains will be disposed of when they die.

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03 Sep 2011, 12:22 pm

Orwell wrote:

A dead man cannot legally hold property. Therefore your corpse does not belong to you, as after death you no longer exist as a legal person.

A person while he is alive can designate who receives his property. Among his property is his body and parts thereof. His next of kin who would inherit his money and real property would also inherit his body if no other provisions were made. Property is property. Bodies would pass to other the same ways as another other property or asset.

That is why next of kin handle the funeral arrangements and disposal of the body.

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03 Sep 2011, 12:34 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

I think the general attitude in society is that the person, and then their family gets to decide that. And I agree with that.

I can see problems with doctors getting to determine that. The main one being people becoming donors against their will or any other case where they shouldn't.

I.e. I read recently about some cases of people in a "permanent vegetative state," who, when given a sleeping pill (zolpidem), woke up. So, apparently, determining when someone is brain dead is not an exact science.

I've also heard that ER personnel tend to work on people who they perceive as drug users last. (It was a doctor who told me that.) And they apparently don't do drug tests to confirm their suspicions -- they just go with whoever seems scuzziest. So, I imagine that they would also tend to work on people with psychiatric diagnoses last. And I don't think it's a big leap to imagine some "psych case" being quietly allowed to die, in order to save a more normal member of society.

Oh dear god...or lack of god rather...

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03 Sep 2011, 12:46 pm

Orwell wrote:

A dead man cannot legally hold property. Therefore your corpse does not belong to you, as after death you no longer exist as a legal person.

Then it belongs to the next of kin, if any. If there are none and no other arrangements prevail then the State may take the remains intestate. The State has no prior claim on anyone's body or parts thereof.

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03 Sep 2011, 1:02 pm

Jono wrote:

Apparently, no one has figured out yet that this topic is related to the abortion one in the other thread.

Well, duh - some are not so dumm as that. Why make the tie in explicit? They are in the final event two different questions despite the obvious connections.

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03 Sep 2011, 1:20 pm

Orwell wrote:

I don't see any justifiable reason why someone would want to opt out (come on, you're not using it anymore!) but people are weird and irrational about death, so it is probably more sensitive to let them maintain their queer practices if they insist.

What if a person is an ungenerous s.o.b. in life. Why should he spoil a perfectly bad record in death?

Besides, it is a bad precedent to make the State the prime recipient of our flesh. Pretty soon the State will require blood donations in addition to taxes from its citizens/subjects. Or community service (aka slavery).

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03 Sep 2011, 2:24 pm

cave_canem wrote:

LKL wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

There is a *huge* difference. Catatonia is chemical; PVS is neurological.

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03 Sep 2011, 2:30 pm

LKL wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

LKL wrote:

cave_canem wrote:

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

There is a *huge* difference. Catatonia is chemical; PVS is neurological.

There have also been people in a "brain dead" state that have recovered completely after the doctor pronounced them brain dead.

One thing I want people to consider, what is to stop a doctor from declaring someone dead and then harvest said person's organs for a high-paying client.

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