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John_Browning
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06 Sep 2011, 1:11 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
I think a healthy city that is great for the lower middle class all the way up to the rich is Houston Texas.

...Even the so-called "best" cities such as Chicago, LA, and Seattle take a backseat to the suburbs around them as that is where all the economic growth is coming from. They are no longer the engines of growth they once used to be and a great many of them are unfavorable towards the middle class, immigrants, families and college graduates looking to get ahead because of their expensive real estate and cost of living, and most importantly, it is difficult to own an automobile in the city, and transit only services 10% of the employed public well, the other 90% most likely work outside the city.

LA really sucks, unemployment is in the 19-20% range including those who ran out of unemployment, crime is bad, the cost of living is high, taxes are high, wages are way down, and services are going broke due to illegal immigration. Chicago is a combat zone and also has problems from illegal immigration. Seattle is supposed to be okay, though I've never been there. Most people don't get to live in the parts of big cities where they are getting graded at. LA has a few great tourist spots if you can stand the traffic to get there, but travel a couple miles in any direction and you should dress down and leave before dark. Travel to some of the nearby suburbs and even Iraq veterans who grew up in that area sometimes get murdered despite no gang ties. Likewise, Chicago may be a major economic hub for our nation, but they also have a murder rate greater than our casualty rate in Afghanistan and their corruption makes LA seem like a model of ethical, originalist constitutional government.


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MarketAndChurch
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06 Sep 2011, 2:03 am

91 wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
i think a healthy city that is great for the lower middle class all the way up to the rich is Houston Texas.


I think so too, Houston would be a fantastic place to live.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Vancouver BC is amongst the most well planned cities on earth, yet it is a nightmare for the middle class as it is also the most expensive real estate in North America.


True, Vancouver was great when it was an undiscovered gem, now its far too expensive, rather like Sydney.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Even the so-called "best" cities such as Chicago, LA, and Seattle take a backseat to the suburbs around them as that is where all the economic growth is coming from.


Suburbs can be planned in detail too. Places like Elizabeth and Golden Grove have been well integrated into greater Adelaide. With access to affordable housing, car manufacturing, higher education and defense, they give people from pretty much all classes access to opportunity. Although my favorite suburban development strategy is Subiaco in Western Australia. It has everything the middle class needs, from cheap widespread public transport to access to uncongested transport corridors. That said, western Sydney is an utter mess.


Those are all the ingredients for success that I want to hear, so I will look into subiaco as I will use it to lend to my own WP post about the middle class.

If Sydney is not the way to go, Is Melbourne a better model to emulate? Sydney seems too expensive, and melbourne seems to be gaining a lot of attention, even a top city in MensHealth magazine of best places on earth for young bachelors and on everyones top10 world cities the last two years. I love San Francisco, and it's been compared a lot to SF with an European ambiance, but it, unlike SF and many other beautiful cities actually have an affordable suburbia that can provide young australians and less well-off australians a path to upward mobility:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... 0649336%20
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/syd ... 1114897084
http://www.newgeography.com/content/001 ... ordability


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MarketAndChurch
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06 Sep 2011, 2:36 am

John_Browning wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
I think a healthy city that is great for the lower middle class all the way up to the rich is Houston Texas.

...Even the so-called "best" cities such as Chicago, LA, and Seattle take a backseat to the suburbs around them as that is where all the economic growth is coming from. They are no longer the engines of growth they once used to be and a great many of them are unfavorable towards the middle class, immigrants, families and college graduates looking to get ahead because of their expensive real estate and cost of living, and most importantly, it is difficult to own an automobile in the city, and transit only services 10% of the employed public well, the other 90% most likely work outside the city.

LA really sucks, unemployment is in the 19-20% range including those who ran out of unemployment, crime is bad, the cost of living is high, taxes are high, wages are way down, and services are going broke due to illegal immigration. Chicago is a combat zone and also has problems from illegal immigration. Seattle is supposed to be okay, though I've never been there. Most people don't get to live in the parts of big cities where they are getting graded at. LA has a few great tourist spots if you can stand the traffic to get there, but travel a couple miles in any direction and you should dress down and leave before dark. Travel to some of the nearby suburbs and even Iraq veterans who grew up in that area sometimes get murdered despite no gang ties. Likewise, Chicago may be a major economic hub for our nation, but they also have a murder rate greater than our casualty rate in Afghanistan and their corruption makes LA seem like a model of ethical, originalist constitutional government.


Yea LA is in bad shape and most of California is in denial about the future of the state. Overpaid unionized teacher and state employees choke the states funds, the LA city council is the most highly payed council in the nation making 6 figure salaries for those who comprise it, and the green movement is fueling the business and middle class exodus from this hell hole while funding the expansion of every major Californian company in neighboring states like Oregon, Washington, Utah, Neveda, and Arizona. Why would anyone want to expand in such an uncertain and toxic business climate? City hall favor unions and environmentalists. It is sad that it can't have a moderate position on the environment and labor laws while also giving an equal consideration to the business community. When they do decide to reach out to the business community, it is the entertainment industry who are ardent supporters, instead of the Port which is an even larger employer of los angelinos, and they don't seem to care about what remains of LA's manufacturing.

Seattle is a new urbanist guinea pig, but like in most cities over the last decade, the suburbs have been driving the growth and providing the jobs, which is good... it humbles these economic hubs with their tall skyscrappers and provides a multipolar economic environment that betters the city as well as they now cannot depend on their size and glamor and shnazy bar districts to bring in talent and drive job growth.

Chicago is a dying mess, and has been named (along with Osaka, Berlin, and LA) as one of the fastest cities fading from prominence and relevance. http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/07/cities ... de_21.html

It is sad to see such a great city fall. It's job losses since 2000 are only bested by Detroit. One story of this great city is told well in this blog post:
http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/09/02/r ... ependence/


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91
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06 Sep 2011, 4:24 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
If Sydney is not the way to go, Is Melbourne a better model to emulate?


Certainly. Though both have transportation issues that I don't think can be solved through toll roads. I found the Tullamarine Freeway in Melbourne to be far too slow... plus Melbourne Airport is a design failure, its no where near accessible enough.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
melbourne seems to be gaining a lot of attention


Melbourne and Adelaide are both doing very well on the international stage... though most Aussies consider Adelaide to be a bit of a backwater. Both cities have a fantastic pedestrian culture... I think all great cities are great on the pedestrian level first. Both also have a love affair with the arts, architecture and sport. In Melbourne you have to walk though the Block Arcade, one you do, you will love the city. The same goes for Rundle Mall in Adelaide.


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06 Sep 2011, 11:04 am

@MarketandChurch: It looks like you have put a great amount of work into it! I think that planned cities are superior to unplanned cities throughout history; look at T'ang Chang'an for example. Also, do not forget that planned economies do not suffer from the need for growth and can be more carefully tuned to what is necessary for the people as a whole rather than the market. And planned economies need not be socialist; indeed, my cities have non-socialist planned economies and yet have a higher technological level than in reality.

By the way, what type of plan are your cities on? And could you explain why you feel the need to have suburbs for economic growth?



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2011, 11:23 am

Abgal64 wrote:
@MarketandChurch: It looks like you have put a great amount of work into it! I think that planned cities are superior to unplanned cities throughout history; look at T'ang Chang'an for example. Also, do not forget that planned economies do not suffer from the need for growth and can be more carefully tuned to what is necessary for the people as a whole rather than the market. And planned economies need not be socialist; indeed, my cities have non-socialist planned economies and yet have a higher technological level than in reality.

By the way, what type of plan are your cities on? And could you explain why you feel the need to have suburbs for economic growth?


Why are so many cities unplanned? Most of them just happened and grew with no central vision or design. Most cities are influenced by natural features such as nearness to water, harbors or a convenient place to pass through high ground and such like. Cities state at the easiest places to be and work.

ruveyn



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06 Sep 2011, 3:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Abgal64 wrote:
@MarketandChurch: It looks like you have put a great amount of work into it! I think that planned cities are superior to unplanned cities throughout history; look at T'ang Chang'an for example. Also, do not forget that planned economies do not suffer from the need for growth and can be more carefully tuned to what is necessary for the people as a whole rather than the market. And planned economies need not be socialist; indeed, my cities have non-socialist planned economies and yet have a higher technological level than in reality.

By the way, what type of plan are your cities on? And could you explain why you feel the need to have suburbs for economic growth?


Why are so many cities unplanned? Most of them just happened and grew with no central vision or design. Most cities are influenced by natural features such as nearness to water, harbors or a convenient place to pass through high ground and such like. Cities state at the easiest places to be and work.

ruveyn
Cities in Europe were unplanned, compared to cities in Mesoamerica or the Andes, in general for the following reasons: They lacked a strong, stable state until the 17th century; and, unlike in the Andes, where planned economies were dominant, the market economy of Europe led itself to organic, and unplanned, growth. For these 2 reasons, one can see why, if we apply them to a civilization somewhere in between those of the Andes and the West, like China, we can see why we get both well planned cities like Chang'an, Luoyang and to a lesser extent Beijing along with other less planned cities: It is due to a combination of a strong state and a market economy.



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11 Sep 2011, 7:47 pm

I majored in urban studies so I have some interest and knowledge about urban studies, issues, and design, etc.



Tim_Tex
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11 Sep 2011, 9:33 pm

It was my major in college, and it's fun to learn about.



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15 Sep 2011, 2:18 pm

As for Houston, we have no zoning, but investment in the inner city/downtown area is accelerating, and we are getting new light rail tracks (we currently have only one, going from downtown to Reliant Stadium).

Most of the sprawl is in the suburbs, not in the city itself. Pasadena, Pearland, and League City are the sprawlingest suburbs in the area (plus most of the chemical plants are actually in Pasadena).



Tim_Tex
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15 Sep 2011, 2:18 pm

As for Houston, we have no zoning, but investment in the inner city/downtown area is accelerating, and we are getting new light rail tracks (we currently have only one, going from downtown to Reliant Stadium).

Most of the sprawl is in the suburbs, not in the city itself. Pasadena, Pearland, and League City are the sprawlingest suburbs in the area (plus most of the chemical plants are actually in Pasadena).

Chambers and Liberty Counties, the counties east of Houston, are left untouched save for the portion of Baytown in Chambers County.