"So you think money is the root of all evil?"

Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,155
Location: United States

09 Sep 2011, 2:00 pm

People get the quote wrong: the original quote is "the love of money is the root of all evil".

All is a strong word, especially since money is a very new invention. Murder, rape, arson, thievery existed far before money.

Helixstein
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,744
Location: New Zealand

09 Sep 2011, 2:01 pm

Fnord wrote:

Helixstein wrote:

I would say that socialism is the one situation where money can not be utilised for evil purposes, but if I did, then I would be setting myself up to be called an imbecile. In theory, capitalism encourages sinister ethics surrounding money, but it seems that a free-market economy is a more effective manner of preventing evil regarding money than a Communist ideology surrounding money.

Any time that money is given in exchange for an evil act (ie, assassination, fraud, theft, et cetera), money is being utilized for an evil purpose. It does not matter which social or political system it occurs under, because no such man-made system can ever fully eliminate evil.

...Obviously. I never denied that; I am merely discussing the matter in terms of governments. I would have thought that would be manifest.

_________________
"We accept the love we think we deserve."

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

09 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Obres wrote:

wcoltd wrote:

Quote:

"So you think money is the root of all evil?"...
"Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?"

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only by on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor - your cliam upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?"

"Have you ever looked at the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions-and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth."

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made - before it can be looted or mooched - made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced."...

-Atlas Shrugged

That's a pretty idealistic view of money. Obviously, Ayn Rand never conceived of an economy where speculation driven by collusion among the major financial forces overwhelmingly distorts any actual value (utility) that a good or service or idea might have.

-Atlas Shrugged- is all about the evils of Crony Capitalism. She must certainly did speculate about this. She wrote a very long novel about it.

According to Atlas Shrugged, it is not possible without government being involved. That is a massive lie. Just look at the 19th century.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,959
Location:

09 Sep 2011, 3:02 pm

Helixstein wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Helixstein wrote:

...Obviously. I never denied that; I am merely discussing the matter in terms of governments. I would have thought that would be manifest.

Helixstein wrote:

"socialism is the one situation where money can not be utilised for evil purposes"

Either Socialism is indeed the only system where money can not be utilized for evil purposes, or all systems (including Socialism) are equally permeable to the utilization of money for evil purposes.

Make up your mind.

_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

09 Sep 2011, 3:29 pm

I wouldn't say money (or even love of money) is the root of all evil.

I'd say lack of empathy is the root of most evil. I'm not talking about a cognitive ability. I'm talking about people who willfully refuse to put themselves in the shoes of someone else because it might threaten their belief system or make them uncomfortable. That is evil.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

09 Sep 2011, 5:40 pm

Booyakasha wrote:

Then I apologise for barging in.

You have as much right to post as anyone else, and you tried to provide a genuine correction so no apology necessary, you know?

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

09 Sep 2011, 5:42 pm

minervx wrote:

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil though, even though not the root of every evil universally.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Sep 2011, 5:50 pm

marshall wrote:

I absolutely concur. But I've come to notice that those with more money have more of a luxury of lacking empathy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

09 Sep 2011, 9:32 pm

cw10 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I believe the actual quote by the Apostle Paul was, the love of money is the root of all evil.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You are correct sir!

,

I agree, it is the love of money (desire, lust) that is the root of many evils.

Ayn Rand was on Medicare until the end of her life, taking it in her husband's name because she was ashamed.

wcoltd
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 756
Location: The internet

09 Sep 2011, 9:48 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I believe the actual quote by the Apostle Paul was, the love of money is the root of all evil.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You are correct sir!

,

I agree, it is the love of money (desire, lust) that is the root of many evils.

Ayn Rand was on Medicare until the end of her life, taking it in her husband's name because she was ashamed.

It was in her rational self-interest. It may make her a hyppocrite in some respect but it does not detract from the ideal itself. A person can know what's right without being right.

A person on welfare can acknolodge the harm it does, the moral hazard it creates and be perfectly correct, even though they themselves take part in it. So if you wish to detract a person's character you are perfectly fine with doing so, but it does not detract from the argument itself.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Sep 2011, 9:55 pm

wcoltd wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I believe the actual quote by the Apostle Paul was, the love of money is the root of all evil.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You are correct sir!

,

I agree, it is the love of money (desire, lust) that is the root of many evils.

Ayn Rand was on Medicare until the end of her life, taking it in her husband's name because she was ashamed.

But Rand was most certainly a heartless harpy, and her message of selfishness and social Darwinism was completely devoid of any morality.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

09 Sep 2011, 9:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

marshall wrote:

I absolutely concur. But I've come to notice that those with more money have more of a luxury of lacking empathy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Selfishness is a commonality between greed, covetousness, and many other sinful behaviors and mindsets. I consider selfishness to be more the root of most sin than a lack of empathy. A lack of empathy is tied to unforgiveness and holding grudges, of which I am guilty, but it's not so much a cause of sin as it is a symptom of frustration with this distorted world.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Sep 2011, 10:12 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

marshall wrote:

I absolutely concur. But I've come to notice that those with more money have more of a luxury of lacking empathy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

True enough.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

09 Sep 2011, 10:52 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

marshall wrote:

I absolutely concur. But I've come to notice that those with more money have more of a luxury of lacking empathy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Lack of empathy is what causes hatred of "otherness", dehumanization, etc... that on the extreme end leads to war and mass bloodbaths. Though there are exceptions, usually it's easier to think less of people, judge people, or act selfishly towards people when "they" are some kind of crude stereotype in your mind instead of real flesh-and-blood individuals with some of the same feelings, needs, fears, etc... as you.

I'm not attacking a kind of temporary lack of empathy due to lack of social understanding that affects people on the autism spectrum. I'm talking about having enough information to at least try and understand, but still willfully refusing.

I'm not saying I'm immune to it either or trying to talk down to anyone. I also don't think it's just rich people or people with power who have a problem. Sometimes it's groups of people who perceive themselves as victims of an injustice who end up acting the most blindly and hypocritically.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

10 Sep 2011, 4:26 am

sinsboldly wrote:

Ayn Rand was on Medicare until the end of her life, taking it in her husband's name because she was ashamed.

She was taxed to pay for it. She claimed what here looted money bought.

ruveyn

MONKEY
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)

10 Sep 2011, 5:26 am

I prefer it if money wasn't a thing but in highly populated areas we kind of need it.

_________________
What film do atheists watch on Christmas?
Coincidence on 34th street.

Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

"So you think money is the root of all evil?" Post Reply New Topic

"So you think money is the root of all evil?"