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Obama's "New" plan to reduce the deficit

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ruveyn
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20 Sep 2011, 7:31 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
customer.

They made money on the back of someone else that they didn't pay. They literally stole the program.

Except that it wasn't actually illegal to steal programs at the time.


Bill Gates doings were not of the highest order but he was still within the law.

The law has been changed since.

ruveyn



marshall
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20 Sep 2011, 7:35 pm

Wealthy businessmen who are intelligent are in favor of increasing taxes. In the past business always supported the idea that the wealthy should pay the bulk of taxes in order to fund government obligations. It was a practical matter. Wealthy businessmen don't want to have to do business in a 3rd world s**thole with crumbling infrastructure and a majority of ignorant uneducated impoverished citizens. I don't believe anything has ever come to be in the US without the consent of big business. Voodoo trickle down economics isn't just bad for the poor. In the end everyone suffers.



Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 7:37 pm

marshall wrote:
Wealthy businessmen who are intelligent are in favor of increasing taxes. In the past business always supported the idea that the wealthy should pay the bulk of taxes in order to fund government obligations. It was a practical matter. Wealthy businessmen don't want to have to do business in a 3rd world s**thole with crumbling infrastructure and a majority of ignorant uneducated impoverished citizens. I don't believe anything has ever come to be in the US without the consent of big business. Voodoo trickle down economics isn't just bad for the poor. In the end everyone suffers.


They've also already made their wealth and their income sources are often not subject to the taxes that Obama is proposing to increase. It does affect any individual that invents a product and is making tons of money lifting them out of being the middle class though.



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 7:41 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


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Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 8:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.


Really I guess cuz you do so much "research" you would know and are undoubtedly right.
But what is the name of this loophole That allows warren to collect money from his company
and not pay income or capital gains tax and protects him from hypothetical changes in the tax code?
Cuz I need to get me some of that.


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 8:43 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.


Really I guess cuz you do so much "research" you would know and are undoubtedly right.
But what is the name of this loophole That allows warren to collect money from his company
and not pay income or capital gains tax and protects him from hypothetical changes in the tax code?
Cuz I need to get me some of that.


If I remember correctly a lot of Buffet's wealth is actually in stock not money.

However to burst your little bubble:
"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.

The latest IRS figures are a few years older — and limited to federal income taxes — but show much the same thing. In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4 percent of their income in federal income taxes, according to the IRS.

Those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid on average 9.9 percent in federal income taxes. Those making $50,000 to $60,000 paid an average of 6.3 percent.

Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15 percent. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35 percent, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

With tax rates that high, why do so many people pay at lower rates? Because the tax code is riddled with more than $1 trillion in deductions, exemptions and credits, and they benefit people at every income level, according to data from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official scorekeeper on revenue issues.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 46 percent of households, mostly low- and medium-income households, will pay no federal income taxes this year. Most, however, will pay other taxes, including Social Security payroll taxes.

"People who are doing quite well and worry about low-income people not paying any taxes bemoan the fact that they get so many tax breaks that they are zeroed out," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "People at the bottom of the distribution say, 'But all of those rich guys are getting bigger tax breaks than we're getting,' which is also the case."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... 4a7f0ddc1b



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 8:58 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.


Really I guess cuz you do so much "research" you would know and are undoubtedly right.
But what is the name of this loophole That allows warren to collect money from his company
and not pay income or capital gains tax and protects him from hypothetical changes in the tax code?
Cuz I need to get me some of that.


If I remember correctly a lot of Buffet's wealth is actually in stock not money.

However to burst your little bubble:
[a bunch of unrelated, copy and pasted tax glurge that did not burst my bubble or answer my question]


Thanks for that information I did not realize that Warren was an investor I thought he was an over paid School teacher.
So if there is an increase in then capital gains rate (the thing that Warren is proposing)
I assume that Warren (now that I know he is some kind of investor) would have to pay.


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 9:01 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.


Really I guess cuz you do so much "research" you would know and are undoubtedly right.
But what is the name of this loophole That allows warren to collect money from his company
and not pay income or capital gains tax and protects him from hypothetical changes in the tax code?
Cuz I need to get me some of that.


If I remember correctly a lot of Buffet's wealth is actually in stock not money.

However to burst your little bubble:
[a bunch of unrelated, copy and pasted tax glurge that did not burst my bubble or answer my question]


Thanks for that information I did not realize that Warren was an investor I thought he was an over paid School teacher.
So if there is an increase in then capital gains rate (the thing that Warren is proposing)
I assume that Warren (now that I know he is some kind of investor) would have to pay.


He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 9:13 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
1. So what? We have a progressive taxation system and have for almost 100 years.

2. Why distort Buffet's position and ignore other parts of it? He called for adjusting capital gains rates as well. And also noted that it didnt discourage him from investing even when it was much, much higher in the 70s.

3. It's a bell curve, who is to say that you know where the inflection points are? We did just fine with higher rates in the past.

4. Pain is going to be felt by everyone in time. To imagine otherwise is fantasy prone thinking.


We are ignoring Warren Buffet's position because the tax hikes Obama and he are advocating wouldn't raise the amount Buffet had to pay by one dime.


I was not informed that berkshire-hathaway was no longer making money.
If So then Warren would not have to pay more.
I am sure you have "researched" it but if warren is still making money then capital gain might have to be paid.


Except his income is coming through a nice little loophole that isn't affected if you raise their income tax, especially since his company doesn't pay dividends.


Really I guess cuz you do so much "research" you would know and are undoubtedly right.
But what is the name of this loophole That allows warren to collect money from his company
and not pay income or capital gains tax and protects him from hypothetical changes in the tax code?
Cuz I need to get me some of that.


If I remember correctly a lot of Buffet's wealth is actually in stock not money.

However to burst your little bubble:
[a bunch of unrelated, copy and pasted tax glurge that did not burst my bubble or answer my question]


Thanks for that information I did not realize that Warren was an investor I thought he was an over paid School teacher.
So if there is an increase in then capital gains rate (the thing that Warren is proposing)
I assume that Warren (now that I know he is some kind of investor) would have to pay.


He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


I guess you learn something every day.
I assumed the Capital gains where when you sell something for more than you paid for it.
(you know the definition of capital gains)
You are saying that it only applies to dividends.
what time is it in Arizona I seem to have over paid by quite a bit. (I have a tax accountant to chew out)


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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simon_says
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20 Sep 2011, 9:15 pm

Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain



Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 9:17 pm

simon_says wrote:
Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain


Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 9:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain


Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.


In your world how does Warren Buffet make his money?
He is the 2nd richest person in America but
he takes no salary, receives no dividends and sells no stock
and He has no capital gains from any other source.
How does he buy lunch or pay for the gas in his car?


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 10:00 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain


Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.


In your world how does Warren Buffet make his money?
He is the 2nd richest person in America but
he takes no salary, receives no dividends and sells no stock
and He has no capital gains from any other source.
How does he buy lunch or pay for the gas in his car?


He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.



JakobVirgil
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20 Sep 2011, 10:32 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain


Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.


In your world how does Warren Buffet make his money?
He is the 2nd richest person in America but
he takes no salary, receives no dividends and sells no stock
and He has no capital gains from any other source.
How does he buy lunch or pay for the gas in his car?


He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.


I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.


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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Inuyasha
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20 Sep 2011, 10:36 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
simon_says wrote:
Quote:
He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.


Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain


Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.


In your world how does Warren Buffet make his money?
He is the 2nd richest person in America but
he takes no salary, receives no dividends and sells no stock
and He has no capital gains from any other source.
How does he buy lunch or pay for the gas in his car?


He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.


I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.


I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).