"The Cult of Ignorance"

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Probably not. If they bought those resources legally, then our ownership ended with the purchase. It's as if I sold someone a car, and they used that car to win a race. I do not own a share of their winnings, since I no longer own the car.


If they bought the resources legally, and developed those resources legally, and sold those developed resources legally, then they deserve the profits, and we have no claim to them.


I see no problem with being wealthy, only with being poor.


The only blame is in the people who sold the resources instead of going through the development-sales-profit evolution themselves, so I'll ask again: Why does the called-for change have to come out of someone else's pocket? It's their money, not ours.

I agree with you. However, this really hits home for me. I have a younger brother, age 10, who is far behind where he should be in his intellectual and emotional development. He has never been taken to see a psychologist or psychiatrist, and has thus far been diagnosed with no learning disabilities or anything of that nature - but my guess is that if he were to be taken to a professional, he would promptly be diagnosed with something, be it ADD or what have you (from personal experience, I know that these people (not all, I'm sure) are ravenous to diagnose, for the quicker they diagnose, the more quickly they can begin to medicate you, which = $ in their pockets. It was alleged when I was younger that I had ADD. However, I refused medications, and by the age of 18 or so I simply outgrew all alleged "symptoms" indicating this disorder.). For all I know, perhaps he does have a genuine case of ADD, or autism, etc. However, I have observed that when time is taken by an adult to instruct him properly in a matter, he is quite receptive and actually a quite competent learner. As far as I can tell, his downfall has been in his upbringing, and in his current home environment. His mother (yes, my own, and a single parent, mind you) is quite poor and has four children total, two of whom she is currently responsible for. She works a great many hours and simply does not have the time to attend to his needs (though she is aware of them), and thus each year he falls a little further behind, and the hope of him ever catching up with his peers shrinks more and more. What is to be done? It is my personal belief (and perhaps I am guilty of being biased in his favor because he is my sibling, but I think not) that with some extra help, he could easily compete with his peers. But he simply hasn't been given the attention that would afford him that chance.
To outside observers, though, he would likely appear as one of the dunces you speak of. My belief, however, is that his case is simply one of malnourished potential (like so many others), which is the tragic thing. He isn't an idiot.

What can I say. Somethimes I find myself thinking how happy I am for not having born in the West. The propoganda was a bit more obvious.

I am not surprised fnord's blog hits home to many in here because everyone around here would love to think that they are being held back because of his peers not being good enough.

On the other hand, sure, if his premises were true the conclusion would be (except for the misuse of the word democracy in the headline). I am not so sure the premises are true though. Also, class rooms are one thing but the tendency in the work place is towards more education requirements. So, during school there may not be incentives to learn - big deal there , nothing you learn during school is really that useful, besides reading and writing which can now be learned easily through texting - but the work place will be more demanding and thus the guys who had it easier in school will have to begin working their asses towards education or die unemployed.

That is the most peculiar defense of anti-intellectualism I've ever heard. He believes that too much information in a person's brain causes the brain to use too much oxygen, diverting it away from other parts of the body such as the heart. He refuses to read books because he doesn't want to die of a heart attack. In an insane way he's being more logical about it than many other anti-intellectuals. He's started from a faulty premise but followed it through to it's logical- though wrong- conclusion.

edited to add: He's not the first person to come up with this "diversion of resources" faulty premise. Women used to be denied higher education on the grounds that it would divert resources to their brains that were needed by their reproductive systems for healthy childbirth. This peculiar train of thought might be some sort of meme that went underground but never fully went away.

Last edited by Janissy on 03 Nov 2011, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe what you should be working toward is the repeal of No Child Left Behind. (This applies only in the U.S.). I don't think the homogenization of American education has anything to do with attempts to preserve self esteem. I think it is attempts to preserve test scores on the standardized exams that decide if a school is worthy of staying open. (I know. I know. You think it inherently isn't.)

I don't think children divide into "dunces and idlers" who deserve no education and "smart kids" who do. I think everybody deserves an education (yes, even kids who are not very smart) but that not everybody is able to learn in the same way or at the same pace. The fast readers should be able to sail ahead while the slower or dyslexic readers get specialized help. They should not be discarded as not worth education nor should the faster ones be held back waiting for them to catch up. Currently the faster ones are held back not to protect the self esteem of the slower ones but because standardization is mandated these days by NCLB.


Many countries use tracking systems. Hopefully posters educated in a country that uses tracking will weigh in on the pros and cons of that approach.

Of course the problem with tracking is that it assumes that a child has uniform skills, that they are either slower or faster. Perhaps tracking in individual subjects rather than as entire classrooms or schools would be a good approach. I have dyscalcula and would have benefitted from more math help and at a slower pace. However I was also a lightening-quick reader and learned to read with little effort. Had I been put on a faster track to accomodate my reading skills I would have been evebn farther behind in math. Had I been put on a slower track to accomodate my math, I would have missed out on a lot of reading comprehension development that I got. Then there are the kids who dont divide into fast in one subject and slow in another but into visual, auditory or kinesthetic learners. A really good school sytem would be able to use all 3 approaches for any subject as needed by particular kids. But that's only possible if you have an expensively high teacher:student ratio.

I don't think the problem is too much self esteem building (I think that's a straw man, happening more in adults' minds than in actual classrooms) but rather too much standardization. The "dunces and idlers" are just kids who don't fit the current standard mode any better than the "fast" kids. Aiming for the middle and then standardizing that middle means that only kids who really fit that middle section in all ways get a good education.

Actually, the answer to your question would be yes.

Officials with the revamped ACORN office in New York -- operating as New York Communities for Change -- have fired staff, shredded reams of documents and told workers to blame disgruntled ex-employees for leaking information in an effort to explain away a FoxNews.com report last week on the group’s involvement in Occupy Wall Street protests, according to sources.

NYCC also is installing surveillance cameras and recording devices at its Brooklyn offices, removing or packing away supplies bearing the name ACORN and handing out photos of Fox News staff with a stern warning not to talk to the media, the sources said.




“They’re doing serious damage control right now,” said an NYCC source.

NYCC Executive Director Jon Kest has been calling a series of emergency meetings to discuss last week’s report—and taking extreme measures to identify the sources in their office and to prevent further damage, a source within NYCC told FoxNews.com.

Two staffers were fired after NYCC officials suspected them as the source of the leaks, a source told FoxNews.com. “One was fired the day the story came out, the other was fired on Friday. (NYCC senior staff) told everyone that they were fired because they talked to you,” a source said.

NYCC spokesman Scott Levenson denied that anyone was fired for talking to the press.

FoxNews.com’s report identified NYCC as a key organizing force behind the Occupy Wall Street protests. Sources within the group also told FoxNews.com NYCC was hiring people to carry signs and join the protests. NYCC -- a nonprofit organization run almost entirely by former ACORN officials and employees --did not reply for comment prior to the publication of the initial article, but later posted a statement on its website dismissing the article and denying that it pays protesters.

A source said that immediately following publication of the FoxNews.com report staff were called into the Brooklyn office for meetings headed by NYCC’s organizing director, Jonathan Westin. Westin handed out copies of the article and went through it line-by-line, the source said.

Staffers were also given copies of photos of Senior Fox News Correspondent Eric Shawn and three other Fox News staff members, including this reporter.

“They reminded us that we can get fired, sued, arrested for talking to the press,” the source said. “Then they went through the article point-by-point and said that the allegation that we pay people to protest isn’t true.”

“‘That’s the story that we’re sticking to,’” Westin said, according to the source.

The source said staffers at the meeting contested Westin’s denial:

“It was pretty funny. Jonathan told staff they don’t pay for protesters, but the people in the meeting who work there objected and said, ‘Wait, you pay us to go to the protests every day?’ Then Jonathan said ‘No, but that’s your job,’ and staffers were like, ‘Yeah, our job is to protest,’ and Westin said, ‘No your job is to fight for economic and social justice. We just send you to protest.’

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03/ac ... z1cfX7EJvH

Hmmm where have I heard of ACORN before, weren't they Obama's former employer.

Fox News. Well that's trustworthy. If there is a Cult of Ignorance than Fox News is the palace of high priests

Considering how NYCC is reacting to Fox News' previous report, looks to me that they are acting pretty guilty.

You should read Arrogance by Bernard Goldberg sometime.

Last edited by Inuyasha on 03 Nov 2011, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

and Inu is their prophet

What are they guilty of? Not wanting to talk to Fox News? I wouldn't either considering an interview with them is a guarantee they will make a smear story even if during the interview process they're smiling and polite. I notice that Fox and others in the Murdochsphere tend to interview the kooky hipster types in an effort to stereotype the movement so organizers telling people not to speak to Fox is unsurprising to me. Besides that there is no way to validate any of the claims made by these "insiders" so the fact that you're holding this up like a smoking gun speaks volumes

Panicking and shredding documents, firing people whom they think might be the leak kinda speaks volumes.

The key part that really shows their reaction indicates guilt is the shredding documents part, if they weren't actually doing anything, they would not be shredding documents, they would be releasing documents and saying that it was a disgruntled ex-employee (wouldn't surprise me if they do this at some point with false documents).

While what they were doing isn't illegal, it does hurt Occupy Wall Street's credibility.

I fairness, I think that's a bit of a mischaracterization.

Inuyasha is deeply embedded within his own biases, but that is not the same thing as ignorance. Obviously I would prefer it if he were more open minded (as he would, no doubt, prefer the same from others), but I would not go so far as to describe him as ignorant, generally.

(Though I must admit that I have done so with respect to specific matters. Inuyasha doesn't always bring out the best in me. )

Last edited by visagrunt on 03 Nov 2011, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wow, that is literally mind blowing

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oep4mRpmrkQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxJi9qGX-ls[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNj-kHe-EmQ[/youtube]

If Fox News is openly saying they have insiders willing to probe for weak links in the organization then why would they [NYCC et al] not be trying to find out who the leaks are? Especially if the leaks are providing information that will naturally be given without or taken out of context by later Fox News story engineers

Most offices have document shredders, by this logic do all offices have something to hide? How do we even know the documents in question had anything to do with the Fox allegations? It is very like Fox to connect two unrelated events to concoct a conspiracy. I shred any documents before recycling them, does this mean that I have a deep, dark secret or that I keep my cards close to my chest and am extremely cautious?

I doubt that dictatorships as a rule imposed universal education for a start or tried at all to destroy all moral, cultural, social or intellectual good is somehow destroyed by dictatorship. It is incidental if it occurs. Furthermore one things you protest too much and are letting yourself be overcome by hyperbole and black and white thinking.


One has already tripped up by making an extreme blunder about what democracy actually is. Undemocratic I doubt is the reason quoted by most people and indeed anyone for such a phenomenon. And they certainly don't combat it in the way you absurdly insist below


Really? Come on. This is not true. Children still get advanced up the years in schools. Furthermore in the UK where I live there is a system of putting children in to ability groups as a rule because it's actually helpful.


Extraordinarily unrealistic. Absurdly sharp contrast is made here for dramatic effect and nothing else. It is a purely speculative scene and furthermore one feels like you're just trying to denigrate lower-ability students by any means necessary.


And now you are entering what can only be called delusion. You go from insulting claims about intellectual ability and so forth which are not the rule. You wildly exaggerate the dangers by saying it will doom society and now you are saying that by not offering obvious preferment all forms of education will cease to exist. Let me start by saying that I doubt teachers will eliminate reward for good students and that good students will feel unfulfilled. The obvious example is the grading system, the basis of education, and of course general social interaction, which unless there is anti-intellectualism (and schools aren't and don't want to do that) then it will still mean students that do well will do well.


Yes of course, and all classes will become stuck as people try to make lower ability students learn by force. Of course of course. I think somebody needs a wake up call about how classrooms actually work.

Well you're doing a pretty good job right now as far as I can see.

Your overbearing exaggerations, absurd suggestions of extreme consequences and unwarranted scaremongering, not to mention the dubious use of the word democracy, I am sure should draw ire from all people with a pulse.

Worst of all you talk about all these things that might happen but your only examples are completely synthetic and not related to any observed truth, only put in for dramatic effect for the lowest common denominator.

An ironic conclusion.


Oh I am going to love this.