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Occupiers are achieving NOTHING

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Master_Pedant
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07 Nov 2011, 12:04 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'd like to what the goals of the OWS movement are. Handouts? Jobs? Affirmation?

(Personally, I've thought all along that they wanted a share of some or all of the billionaire's wealth, but I could be wrong.)

How can the success or failure of their movement be measured if even they don't know what they want?


Some want to end corporate person-hood. 8O


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Circle989898
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07 Nov 2011, 12:11 am

shrox wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
You are a country that brags of being a democracy and a beacon of democracy in all the world.


That has been a lie for about 30 years now...sorry. The USA incarcerates the largest percentage of it population than any other country. In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole).
Ok how does that make it any less of a democracy? This argument can be made about G-Bay since there is a loss of habeas corpus there, but I don't see how it makes sense when applied to the regular justice system.


The statistic certainly makes "land of the free" less valid though I would say. Freedom is associated with democracy.


The U.S is s**t. Each state is designed for certain cultures and that's where it banks. I like the planning but not the advantageous approach to it. I mean its set-up pretty, like how the industries are set-up, east coast, west coast, southern, and how everything revolves around hospitals but other then that it can eat my mcdonalds flavored s**t that I bought using "We the people funding" funding. haha



ruveyn
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07 Nov 2011, 2:31 am

Circle989898 wrote:

The U.S is sh**. Each state is designed for certain cultures and that's where it banks. I like the planning but not the advantageous approach to it. I mean its set-up pretty, like how the industries are set-up, east coast, west coast, southern, and how everything revolves around hospitals but other then that it can eat my mcdonalds flavored sh** that I bought using "We the people funding" funding. haha


Have you considered moving elsewhere?

ruveyn



Circle989898
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07 Nov 2011, 4:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
Circle989898 wrote:

The U.S is sh**. Each state is designed for certain cultures and that's where it banks. I like the planning but not the advantageous approach to it. I mean its set-up pretty, like how the industries are set-up, east coast, west coast, southern, and how everything revolves around hospitals but other then that it can eat my mcdonalds flavored sh** that I bought using "We the people funding" funding. haha


Have you considered moving elsewhere?

ruveyn


What do you mean?



Oodain
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07 Nov 2011, 5:35 am

ruveyn wrote:
Circle989898 wrote:

The U.S is sh**. Each state is designed for certain cultures and that's where it banks. I like the planning but not the advantageous approach to it. I mean its set-up pretty, like how the industries are set-up, east coast, west coast, southern, and how everything revolves around hospitals but other then that it can eat my mcdonalds flavored sh** that I bought using "We the people funding" funding. haha


Have you considered moving elsewhere?

ruveyn


are you sure he is even in the us?

but your prison statistics really do say something dont they,
reinvention of the slavetrade


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07 Nov 2011, 12:02 pm

with a death in the Vancouver camp, it looks like the Occupy movements in that province are being disbanded by police. the death was unrelated to the protest (heroin overdose), but it looks very bad for the protestors. there is resistance and the disbanded camp is recongregating (is that a word?).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... toria.html


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07 Nov 2011, 12:05 pm

"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

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07 Nov 2011, 12:45 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

Image


Yes we should all quit complaining and continue letting consumer culture control us, because without them we'd be doomed right? I think not. Yeah unfortunatly I don't have the resources to live in a totally self sufficient manner at this point, does not mean I would not like to.....I can't dislike our corporatocracy simply because I own a cell phone or because I enjoy some things that are produced?

and Starbucks is overpriced.....they think they own coffee but they don't.



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07 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm

Without the (relatively) free market we currently enjoy, nothing you own (perhaps with the exception of plants) would exist. Simple as that.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:01 pm

OWS summary: They're protesting against bailouts and greed, while demanding free money for themselves.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:03 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Without the (relatively) free market we currently enjoy, nothing you own (perhaps with the exception of plants) would exist. Simple as that.


So you are saying the only way the technology and products that currently exist could not possibly be reproduced in any other system or any other way? I do not think capitalism is the worlds savior.....its a nice illusion that we need this f*cked up system to survive. Now I will admit there are some positive aspects of capitalism which should be incorporated but there are also good elements of things like socialism that are also nessisary.

Also much can be gained from plants.....guess what you can make paper out of that grows faster than trees? Hemp there could be hemp toilet paper, hemp printer paper, hemp napkins ect. But why aren't we doing that? because someone powerful would lose money...there are alternatives to oil which could at least serve to decrease our dependence on it, but of course someone powerful would lose money if that was pursued......not to mention if renewable energy is looked into further people might just learn how to become self sufficient. But I am probably a little ahead of my time with that and its only a part of the whole picture.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:
OWS summary: They're protesting against bailouts and greed, while demanding free money for themselves.


Yes to the ignorant outside observer.......every single one of them is a worthless free loader, who does not even deserve the air they breath and should have no right to use their freedom of speech to openly oppose some of the things they have a problem with.

I think a system with no money would be better honestly.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Without the (relatively) free market we currently enjoy, nothing you own (perhaps with the exception of plants) would exist. Simple as that.


So you are saying the only way the technology and products that currently exist could not possibly be reproduced in any other system or any other way? I do not think capitalism is the worlds savior.....its a nice illusion that we need this f*cked up system to survive. Now I will admit there are some positive aspects of capitalism which should be incorporated but there are also good elements of things like socialism that are also nessisary.


That's exactly what I'm saying, yes. Without a free market and competition within that market, there would be no motivation for technical and scientific progress, and if only the government were releasing products, they'd all be bad as Windows 95.

Quote:
Also much can be gained from plants.....guess what you can make paper out of that grows faster than trees? Hemp there could be hemp toilet paper, hemp printer paper, hemp napkins ect. But why aren't we doing that? because someone powerful would lose money.


Now you're just being silly.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:14 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Without the (relatively) free market we currently enjoy, nothing you own (perhaps with the exception of plants) would exist. Simple as that.


So you are saying the only way the technology and products that currently exist could not possibly be reproduced in any other system or any other way? I do not think capitalism is the worlds savior.....its a nice illusion that we need this f*cked up system to survive. Now I will admit there are some positive aspects of capitalism which should be incorporated but there are also good elements of things like socialism that are also nessisary.


That's exactly what I'm saying, yes. Without a free market and competition within that market, there would be no motivation for technical and scientific progress, and if only the government were releasing products, they'd all be bad as Windows 95.

Quote:
Also much can be gained from plants.....guess what you can make paper out of that grows faster than trees? Hemp there could be hemp toilet paper, hemp printer paper, hemp napkins ect. But why aren't we doing that? because someone powerful would lose money.


Now you're just being silly.


So profit is the only thing that can possibly motivate someone? I think that's bull....I guess I never will understand what people think is so great about our corporatocracy. I don't nessisarly have a solution....but I can certainly see pleanty of flaws in the way things are.

And no I was not being silly in any way....it is true hemp could be used that way, and it is true it's not being used that way because someone with some sway in politics would lose money. Who do you think pays the government?.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
So profit is the only thing that can possibly motivate someone?


Of course not, but one organisation creating all the goods would simply create a load of crap products. Simple as. Look at the majority of monopolies and you'll see what I mean. And have you used the NHS, or the London Underground? Imagine all product producers working as well as those do! No thank you.

On the other hand, the big guys at the top of a firm are likely to be motivated by profit while the creative people they hire to invent new products will be motivated by their enthusiasm to create new things. Hell, Steve Jobs was like that, too, and he couldn't have started Apple under socialism.

The constant competition faced by these companies then motivates everyone involved in them to bring out better products to beat competitors. See how that works?

If the government brought in a bunch of bureaucrats to bring out all consumer products, then lord help us...

Quote:
And no I was not being silly in any way....it is true hemp could be used that way, and it is true it's not being used that way because someone with some sway in politics would lose money. Who do you think pays the government?.


We pay the government. What's your point?



Sweetleaf
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07 Nov 2011, 1:29 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
So profit is the only thing that can possibly motivate someone?


Of course not, but one organisation creating all the goods would simply create a load of crap products. Simple as. Look at the majority of monopolies and you'll see what I mean. And have you used the NHS, or the London Underground? Imagine all product producers working as well as those do! No thank you.

On the other hand, the big guys at the top of a firm are likely to be motivated by profit while the creative people they hire to invent new products will be motivated by their enthusiasm to create new things. Hell, Steve Jobs was like that, too, and he couldn't have started Apple under socialism.

The constant competition faced by these companies then motivates everyone involved in them to bring out better products to beat competitors. See how that works?

If the government brought in a bunch of bureaucrats to bring out all consumer products, then lord help us...

Quote:
And no I was not being silly in any way....it is true hemp could be used that way, and it is true it's not being used that way because someone with some sway in politics would lose money. Who do you think pays the government?.


We pay the government. What's your point?


Yes I see how it works, I just think I would prefer a system not based on your ability to compete and step on others to get to the top. Why does it always have to be about beating someone? So in short I basically dislike the way the entire system is set up, I think it takes away from what humans could accomplish if only they still had a sense of wanting to make the world better, connecting with their fellow humans and maybe working together.......but nope its much better to take out the competition and come out with the product first.

What I meant with who pays the government.......is obviously people in charge of powerful corporations can influence government policy because the government gets something out of it. Another big one is pharmacutical companies......and medicinal marijuana I don't think it's a stretch to say these companies play a role in the federal governments desire to start fighting it and trying to intervene in the states it's legal.