Regarding changes in American health care
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,282
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The entire thing will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Be careful what you wish for.
Imagine the policy vacuum that gets created when you do that.
I suggest to you that a Supreme Court declaration of invalidity will not restore the status quo ante. That ship has sailed. And it may well be that the only remedy left for ensuring access to health care and maintaining a level of control over public spending on health care will be a single payer public model. And that is most assuredly within the constitutional competence of the federal government.
I, for one, will sit back with more than a little bit of schadenfreude as I watch the right wing win the battle, only to lose the war.
How do you figure that?
But okay, have the single payer debate. At least that is an honest debate compared the one we got with this corporatist monstrosity that is Obamacare.
The individual mandate is the only thing that is keeping the insurance companies from being able to sue over Obamacare, if it goes, I can guarentee that the rest of it would follow in only a few months.
Quite frankly, we're talking about the same Government that caused the housing debacle, bankrupted the post office, stole money from social security, etc. The idea of trusting them with one's healthcare is completely insane.
Yet you cannot trust your healthcare to the private insurance companies either.......at least if you're in my crappy position. But I do not like what obamacare proposes either.
I can sue the insurance companies, make their lives a living hell by contacting the media (whom would love giving insurance companies a public relations nightmare), good luck sueing the Government over the decision of an unelected official.
Well good for you.........I am glad you can handle all the paper work and stress that would go into sueing a large insurance company, and that you can afford a lawyer. There are however those who cannot even afford any insurance to begin with....and who are they going to sue? But as I said I don't like Obamacare either.
blauSamstag wrote:
When Canada created their health care system, the bill was 8 pages long, and everybody knew exactly how it worked.
We get these convoluted bills because our "representatives" only care about themselves and by extension whoever is giving them money.
We get these convoluted bills because our "representatives" only care about themselves and by extension whoever is giving them money.
Very satisfied with our health care system here in Canada
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The entire thing will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Be careful what you wish for.
Imagine the policy vacuum that gets created when you do that.
I suggest to you that a Supreme Court declaration of invalidity will not restore the status quo ante. That ship has sailed. And it may well be that the only remedy left for ensuring access to health care and maintaining a level of control over public spending on health care will be a single payer public model. And that is most assuredly within the constitutional competence of the federal government.
I, for one, will sit back with more than a little bit of schadenfreude as I watch the right wing win the battle, only to lose the war.
How do you figure that?
But okay, have the single payer debate. At least that is an honest debate compared the one we got with this corporatist monstrosity that is Obamacare.
The individual mandate is the only thing that is keeping the insurance companies from being able to sue over Obamacare, if it goes, I can guarentee that the rest of it would follow in only a few months.
Quite frankly, we're talking about the same Government that caused the housing debacle, bankrupted the post office, stole money from social security, etc. The idea of trusting them with one's healthcare is completely insane.
Yet you cannot trust your healthcare to the private insurance companies either.......at least if you're in my crappy position. But I do not like what obamacare proposes either.
I can sue the insurance companies, make their lives a living hell by contacting the media (whom would love giving insurance companies a public relations nightmare), good luck sueing the Government over the decision of an unelected official.
Well good for you.........I am glad you can handle all the paper work and stress that would go into sueing a large insurance company, and that you can afford a lawyer. There are however those who cannot even afford any insurance to begin with....and who are they going to sue? But as I said I don't like Obamacare either.
Money isn't the issue, you just have to know what your rights are, and know who to contact.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,282
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The entire thing will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Be careful what you wish for.
Imagine the policy vacuum that gets created when you do that.
I suggest to you that a Supreme Court declaration of invalidity will not restore the status quo ante. That ship has sailed. And it may well be that the only remedy left for ensuring access to health care and maintaining a level of control over public spending on health care will be a single payer public model. And that is most assuredly within the constitutional competence of the federal government.
I, for one, will sit back with more than a little bit of schadenfreude as I watch the right wing win the battle, only to lose the war.
How do you figure that?
But okay, have the single payer debate. At least that is an honest debate compared the one we got with this corporatist monstrosity that is Obamacare.
The individual mandate is the only thing that is keeping the insurance companies from being able to sue over Obamacare, if it goes, I can guarentee that the rest of it would follow in only a few months.
Quite frankly, we're talking about the same Government that caused the housing debacle, bankrupted the post office, stole money from social security, etc. The idea of trusting them with one's healthcare is completely insane.
Yet you cannot trust your healthcare to the private insurance companies either.......at least if you're in my crappy position. But I do not like what obamacare proposes either.
I can sue the insurance companies, make their lives a living hell by contacting the media (whom would love giving insurance companies a public relations nightmare), good luck sueing the Government over the decision of an unelected official.
Well good for you.........I am glad you can handle all the paper work and stress that would go into sueing a large insurance company, and that you can afford a lawyer. There are however those who cannot even afford any insurance to begin with....and who are they going to sue? But as I said I don't like Obamacare either.
Money isn't the issue, you just have to know what your rights are, and know who to contact.
And I bet the insurance just love if their customers know all of their rights, and actually put them to use to keep the insurance company in line.......but yes it is certainly possible for one to know their rights and who to contact but of course do you think everyone has that going for them? even if they know their rights there is no garantee they know who to contact......just throwing that out there as there are variations.
I don't even have insurance.......but I imagine its not all rainbows and cupcakes for people with insurance either.
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The entire thing will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Be careful what you wish for.
Imagine the policy vacuum that gets created when you do that.
I suggest to you that a Supreme Court declaration of invalidity will not restore the status quo ante. That ship has sailed. And it may well be that the only remedy left for ensuring access to health care and maintaining a level of control over public spending on health care will be a single payer public model. And that is most assuredly within the constitutional competence of the federal government.
I, for one, will sit back with more than a little bit of schadenfreude as I watch the right wing win the battle, only to lose the war.
How do you figure that?
But okay, have the single payer debate. At least that is an honest debate compared the one we got with this corporatist monstrosity that is Obamacare.
The individual mandate is the only thing that is keeping the insurance companies from being able to sue over Obamacare, if it goes, I can guarentee that the rest of it would follow in only a few months.
Quite frankly, we're talking about the same Government that caused the housing debacle, bankrupted the post office, stole money from social security, etc. The idea of trusting them with one's healthcare is completely insane.
Yet you cannot trust your healthcare to the private insurance companies either.......at least if you're in my crappy position. But I do not like what obamacare proposes either.
I can sue the insurance companies, make their lives a living hell by contacting the media (whom would love giving insurance companies a public relations nightmare), good luck sueing the Government over the decision of an unelected official.
Well good for you.........I am glad you can handle all the paper work and stress that would go into sueing a large insurance company, and that you can afford a lawyer. There are however those who cannot even afford any insurance to begin with....and who are they going to sue? But as I said I don't like Obamacare either.
Money isn't the issue, you just have to know what your rights are, and know who to contact.
And I bet the insurance just love if their customers know all of their rights, and actually put them to use to keep the insurance company in line.......but yes it is certainly possible for one to know their rights and who to contact but of course do you think everyone has that going for them? even if they know their rights there is no garantee they know who to contact......just throwing that out there as there are variations.
I don't even have insurance.......but I imagine its not all rainbows and cupcakes for people with insurance either.
No, they really don't like it. However I got a news flash, government doesn't like it either and is worse than insurance companies.
The reason why I liked the Republican Legislation was it opened up more competition from across state lines and if I remember correctly allowed small businesses to pool resources to bargain like a large company (I thought people here liked collective bargaining). An insurance company isn't likely to try to screw over a large company that represents hundreds of policies if not thousands.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,282
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The entire thing will be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Be careful what you wish for.
Imagine the policy vacuum that gets created when you do that.
I suggest to you that a Supreme Court declaration of invalidity will not restore the status quo ante. That ship has sailed. And it may well be that the only remedy left for ensuring access to health care and maintaining a level of control over public spending on health care will be a single payer public model. And that is most assuredly within the constitutional competence of the federal government.
I, for one, will sit back with more than a little bit of schadenfreude as I watch the right wing win the battle, only to lose the war.
How do you figure that?
But okay, have the single payer debate. At least that is an honest debate compared the one we got with this corporatist monstrosity that is Obamacare.
The individual mandate is the only thing that is keeping the insurance companies from being able to sue over Obamacare, if it goes, I can guarentee that the rest of it would follow in only a few months.
Quite frankly, we're talking about the same Government that caused the housing debacle, bankrupted the post office, stole money from social security, etc. The idea of trusting them with one's healthcare is completely insane.
Yet you cannot trust your healthcare to the private insurance companies either.......at least if you're in my crappy position. But I do not like what obamacare proposes either.
I can sue the insurance companies, make their lives a living hell by contacting the media (whom would love giving insurance companies a public relations nightmare), good luck sueing the Government over the decision of an unelected official.
Well good for you.........I am glad you can handle all the paper work and stress that would go into sueing a large insurance company, and that you can afford a lawyer. There are however those who cannot even afford any insurance to begin with....and who are they going to sue? But as I said I don't like Obamacare either.
Money isn't the issue, you just have to know what your rights are, and know who to contact.
And I bet the insurance just love if their customers know all of their rights, and actually put them to use to keep the insurance company in line.......but yes it is certainly possible for one to know their rights and who to contact but of course do you think everyone has that going for them? even if they know their rights there is no garantee they know who to contact......just throwing that out there as there are variations.
I don't even have insurance.......but I imagine its not all rainbows and cupcakes for people with insurance either.
No, they really don't like it. However I got a news flash, government doesn't like it either and is worse than insurance companies.
The reason why I liked the Republican Legislation was it opened up more competition from across state lines and if I remember correctly allowed small businesses to pool resources to bargain like a large company (I thought people here liked collective bargaining). An insurance company isn't likely to try to screw over a large company that represents hundreds of policies if not thousands.
I got a news flash that all the huge corporations and the government are causing problems and lots of people are fed up with it.
Inuyasha wrote:
Except there is a piece of Legislation that the Republicans had made that could replace Obamacare that doesn't have the individual mandate. The argument that oh there would be a horrendous policy vacuum, actually in response I think we would see an explosion in economic growth due to Obamacare being flushed down the toilet (though we would probably need a plunger to get all 2000+ pages to go down).
Your attempt to scare people isn't going to work.
Your attempt to scare people isn't going to work.
Two problems with that:
First, the legislation isn't enacted. Draft legistlation doesn't fill a policy vacuum. If the Supremes strike down existing legislation, either in whole or in part, the vacuum will exist from that moment--the US Supreme Court does not engage in the practice of suspending its judgements for a fixed period to give Congress the opportunity to enact remedial legislations.
Second, the Republican legislation will do nothing to control health care costs. That is the elephant in the room that no one is talking about.
US governments (all levels aggregated) spend more per capita on health care than Canadian governments. The US governments also spend a higher percentage of GDP on health care than ours do. And within that smaller slice of public money, we manage to provide universal, medically necessary care, and achieve comparable (and in many cases better) outcomes than you do. And the key to all of this is that the single payer, public system in Canada is better able to contrain costs.
You can tinker with the private insurance system all you like, but you have to recognize that medical insurance causes medical costs to rise, because consumers have no incentive to be price sensistive.
Even under the Republican legislation, insurance companies will be caught between unconstrained costs of benefits, and a compulsion to cover. The only remedy is to pass on the costs to coverage holders. Freeloaders who don't buy health insurance until they are at risk of getting sick will break your system--and an aging population is going to make that all the more likely.
_________________
--James
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