Veganism

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mar00
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18 Nov 2011, 2:10 pm

mushroo wrote:

They are vegan for the most part, but will eat non-vegan food if it would be thrown away otherwise, for example they will go dumpster diving and eat whatever they find that isn't spoiled. Wasting food sucks.

Yeah, something like that I would do occasionally not so more now (but mostly excluding meat). Its amazing what they throw away D: But that does not make the question any less stupid though..

Obres wrote:

Then you have to start weighing the value of life, as those animals wouldn't exist at all if we didn't use them, and it becomes very philosophical and very messy.

It does not really. Only on certain preposterous wing. There are plenty of fundamental-global reasons for not eating meat.

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18 Nov 2011, 2:15 pm

mar00 wrote:

There are plenty of fundamental-global reasons for not eating meat.

Tell us then?

Oh, and those fish and chips were marvellous. As were those sausages I had for my lunch earlier. Must go to the farmer's market tomorrow to buy some more - thanks for reminding me.

Obres
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18 Nov 2011, 2:22 pm

mar00 wrote:

Obres wrote:

Then you have to start weighing the value of life, as those animals wouldn't exist at all if we didn't use them, and it becomes very philosophical and very messy.

It does not really. Only on certain preposterous wing. There are plenty of fundamental-global reasons for not eating meat.

If you're talking environmental, that's another issue as well. If you're talking ethical, it absolutely gets complicated if you think past "I don't wanna kill poor little animals" and ask just the simple question "If we don't raise them and slaughter them, then what happens, and is it better?". That question, which is a natural follow-up, opens the door to all kinds of issues.

mar00
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18 Nov 2011, 2:24 pm

Tequila wrote:

mar00 wrote:

There are plenty of fundamental-global reasons for not eating meat.

Tell us then?

Oh, and those fish and chips were marvellous. As were those sausages I had for my lunch earlier. Must go to the farmer's market tomorrow to buy some more - thanks for reminding me.

?????????? I shall refrain myself from insulting you as you have me.
You know very well what I am talking about - now drop this sparkling word fundamental and leave global alone. Still have got nothing to say?

Oh, I would eat meat. I would gladly eat Homo sapiens meat. I see no problem with that whatsoever.

mar00
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18 Nov 2011, 2:38 pm

Obres wrote:

mar00 wrote:

Obres wrote:

Then you have to start weighing the value of life, as those animals wouldn't exist at all if we didn't use them, and it becomes very philosophical and very messy.

It does not really. Only on certain preposterous wing. There are plenty of fundamental-global reasons for not eating meat.

Okay lets take ethical I think we would agree on environmental at least to some extent. Unfortunately many people do ignore the actual issues and skip straight to ethical with certain dose of ignorance. They seem to be only concerned w/ morality debate - and telling people what to do never ends well. This question is good and opens a lot to think about. Could we even grow veggies w/o animals? I remember having read quite convincing world model w/o meat consumption but it is obviously rather complicated. But I am not sure what does this have to do w/ ethics. Is it possible? It is reasonable to assume that hypothetically yes. Is it better? Why was it bad in the first place? All in all Idk if this *value of life* argument is a good one. What if it was?...

Tequila
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18 Nov 2011, 2:38 pm

mar00 wrote:

Still have got nothing to say?

I still don't think there are good reasons not to eat meat. It is down to personal preference, by and large.

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 2:47 pm

There are some efficiency arguments for a vegetable based diet
it is less resource intensive etc.
I have not really found a reason to reject honey and sustainable "kind" dairy.

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mushroo
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18 Nov 2011, 2:51 pm

mar00 wrote:

Could we even grow veggies w/o animals?

Of course, what do you think animals eat!

1 acre of land can produce 356 pounds of edible soy protein but only 20 pounds of beef. If meat were banned (not that I'm advocating this you understand) then all that grazing land would be available to grow crops for human consumption, and hunger will become something our grandchildren read about in history class.

My personal argument for being (mostly) vegetarian isn't ethics or environmental or religious. It simply feels like an unnecessary and antiquated practice to me. At least in the Western world, food is abundant, I am lucky enough to be able to choose what I eat (some people don't have that privilege), so why not eat the diet that causes least harm?

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18 Nov 2011, 2:52 pm

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

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mushroo
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18 Nov 2011, 2:57 pm

Vigilans wrote:

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

I imagine they would choose not to eat it.

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18 Nov 2011, 2:58 pm

mushroo wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

I imagine they would not eat it.

Doesn't involve killing animals though, and there will no doubt be "tweaks" to the product to make it healthier

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 3:00 pm

mushroo wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

I imagine they would choose not to eat it.

Really we should not care what vegans want.
More Veg less animals great idea.
Honey is Slavery - Meat is Murder - Slogan is Hyperbole. :lol:

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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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mar00
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18 Nov 2011, 3:04 pm

Tequila wrote:

mar00 wrote:

Still have got nothing to say?

I still don't think there are good reasons not to eat meat. It is down to personal preference, by and large.

I almost gave into temptation to bring to you a vegan rant. What can I say - you know best! Everyone knows best hooray for this mystical personal preference.

mar00
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18 Nov 2011, 3:09 pm

Vigilans wrote:

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

I think it's great. But aint gonna happen not in my lifetime. Many choose veganism for health reasons though.

mushroo
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18 Nov 2011, 3:09 pm

Vigilans wrote:

What will vegans think of meat "grown" industrially through genetic engineering/stem cell technology?

I imagine there are also many non-veg who would choose not to eat this product.

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18 Nov 2011, 3:13 pm

mushroo wrote:

I imagine there are also many non-veg who would choose not to eat this product.

Certainly. Someday though I expect industrial farms will disappear and be replaced with this sort of food production, leaving people very little choice. Private farms will still exist, naturally, and probably be able to make a huge profit selling "natural" meat. I'd say its win-win for basically everybody, as the "family farm" is a lot less of an impact on local environment than industrial farming

mar00 wrote:

I think it's great. But aint gonna happen not in my lifetime. Many choose veganism for health reasons though.

You are a vegan? I'm glad to hear you are positive towards the idea. You might be surprised to know they have already "grown" meat; within the next twenty years I can almost guarantee we will see this industry rapidly expand

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