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Abgal64
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29 Nov 2011, 12:02 am

idlewild wrote:
Abgal64 wrote:

Indeed, I am particularly interested in the redistribution economy and the quite high status of women in the Sumerian civilization.


I'm not so sure of this. Some of Enheduanna's writing strikes me very similar to Gloria Steinem in her feminism and seeming reaction to patriarchy and oppression. Maybe it's the translation I have that gives me that impression.
I am only beginning to achieve conversant status in reading Sumerian: The most I can read fluidly are simple building inscriptions; thus, at least for now, I have to deal with translations as well for any poetry or prose.

Indeed, Enheduanna herself records being repeatedly sexually advanced towards by Lugalannemundu. The impression I get from the ETCSL translations of her works is as a self-confident yet desperate, she was exiled by Lugalannemundu, person.

Nonetheless, the position of women in Sumerian society, from what I have read, was far better than in Greco-Roman society, for example, and much like that of women in Ancient Egypt.


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Seashell
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29 Nov 2011, 9:31 am

Thanks for explaining how the writing system works. Can you check that I've understood the sample in your scan correctly?

The first two symbols of the first word are the logograms for the determiner and SAR2, the third is z orientated to show that it is followed by u, and then r orientated to show that a follows it.

In the second word, the first three symbols are logograms and the last is a zero consonant aksara orientated so that it is followed by e.

The third word starts with the logogram for SAR, then the symbol for d when followed by u, with the sign for b stuck to it.

The fourth word consists of the zero consonant aksara orientated for i, then the next symbol I'm unsure about, then the logogram for SAR again. Does the slanted line mean it is pronounced twice? Then zero consonant followed by e, then the same symbol again with n attached to it.



Abgal64
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29 Nov 2011, 1:19 pm

Seashell wrote:
Thanks for explaining how the writing system works. Can you check that I've understood the sample in your scan correctly?

The first two symbols of the first word are the logograms for the determiner and SAR2, the third is z orientated to show that it is followed by u, and then r orientated to show that a follows it.

In the second word, the first three symbols are logograms and the last is a zero consonant aksara orientated so that it is followed by e.

The third word starts with the logogram for SAR, then the symbol for d when followed by u, with the sign for b stuck to it.

The fourth word consists of the zero consonant aksara orientated for i, then the next symbol I'm unsure about, then the logogram for SAR again. Does the slanted line mean it is pronounced twice? Then zero consonant followed by e, then the same symbol again with n attached to it.
Everything you said is correct, except the following: The slanted line means the glyph is repeated, as SAR is not only the stem's determinative but also the stem itself. The word DUB, being majuscule, is actually a compound logogram that I derived from conflating SAR+KI, similar to the original Sumerian Cuneifrom, the latter of which, meaning "earth" by itself or "earthy things, minerals" as a determinative you would not recognize from the page I scanned as it does not include a key for any core semantic glyphs. The symbol following i is simply n rotated for the vowel a.

I am very impressed with how quickly you figured out the script.


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Seashell
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30 Nov 2011, 3:56 pm

Thanks. I think the writing system you have developed works well. I found Sumerian easier to transliterate than Egyptian hieroglyphics, which I never really managed to get to grips with.



Abgal64
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30 Nov 2011, 4:39 pm

Seashell wrote:
Thanks. I think the writing system you have developed works well. I found Sumerian easier to transliterate than Egyptian hieroglyphics, which I never really managed to get to grips with.
Thank you for praising my script! Making artificial writing systems is somewhat of a hobby of mine, so I suppose practice makes perfect.

With regards to Egyptian Hieroglyphs, I prefer to use the Arabic Script, as I know it well and as it is very well suited to transliteration of another Afro-Asiatic language given the similar phonologies between the 2 languages and the fact that it would not look too strange if no vowels are in an Arabization, unlike a latinization. Sumerian, on the other hand, has only a single phoneme not found in English (/x/, written <ḫ>.) How much Egyptian do you know, by the way?


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Seashell
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30 Nov 2011, 7:11 pm

I don't really know any Egyptian. I spent a couple of months trying to teach myself how to read hieroglyphs from a library book. I suppose if I'd learnt some of the language beforehand I would have found it easier to understand how the script works.

What other artificial writing systems have you made?



Abgal64
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30 Nov 2011, 8:32 pm

Seashell wrote:
I don't really know any Egyptian. I spent a couple of months trying to teach myself how to read hieroglyphs from a library book. I suppose if I'd learnt some of the language beforehand I would have found it easier to understand how the script works.

What other artificial writing systems have you made?
To me, I would think Egyptian Hieroglyphs would be easier than cuneiform, given its alphabetic nature and the fact that it, and especially hieratic, were made to be written on a paper-like surface with a pen as opposed to impressed into moist clay with a stylus. I would not know though, I have never studied Egyptian intensively.

As for the artificial scripts I have made, I have a description, but not any scans yet, of this one on my Google Site. It, known as Rluuzhwib (pronounced /ɭu˩ʒwi˥b/) and it is for my constructed language, Rluumxamc (pronounced /ɭu˩mʕɐ˨m/), which is for my highly alternate Earth's world, and deep space, civilization known as the Rluuqiimcby (pronounced /ɭu˩ʔi˨mbə/); my website explains the Rluuqiimcby's world (though many of the names are old, given that I recently revived the site after several months of work on the world of the Rluuqiimcby.) If you are wondering why the names look so strange, it is because my latinization is built so that one can type Rluumxamc without resorting to the annoying character map, so I use many odd diagraphs and conventions to represent the language's phonology which, being originally from a fictionalized Great Rift Valley without a Bantu expansion, includes many clicks, a radical consonant and four tones.


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graywyvern
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06 Dec 2011, 12:29 pm

i always wanted to ask someone who knew sumerian (plus aramaic, i guess) if there was anything in this:

http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Mushroom-C ... 372&sr=1-1

his whole thesis is based upon sumerian puns--!


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graywyvern
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29 Dec 2011, 8:22 pm

Elvis in Sumerian:

http://www.archaeology.org/0111/reviews/elvis.html

enjoy.


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Abgal64
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29 Dec 2011, 8:29 pm

graywyvern wrote:
I have heard of that before but could not find it; thank you for the link!


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