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Inuyasha
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04 Dec 2011, 2:31 am

Jacoby wrote:
I suppose that is the strategy you should choose when you can't defend your record. However, you certainly don't seem to be a believer of this so called "11th commandment".

BTW, Educating people on the positions of your primary opponents doesn't = "poop flinging". You'll never see Ron talking about Cain or Newt's multiple infidelities, he's simply too nice and too focused on the issues.


"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eleven ... ald_Reagan)



Jacoby
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04 Dec 2011, 2:35 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I suppose that is the strategy you should choose when you can't defend your record. However, you certainly don't seem to be a believer of this so called "11th commandment".

BTW, Educating people on the positions of your primary opponents doesn't = "poop flinging". You'll never see Ron talking about Cain or Newt's multiple infidelities, he's simply too nice and too focused on the issues.


"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eleven ... ald_Reagan)


It would of been funnier if you were referring to thou shalt not get caught



Inuyasha
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04 Dec 2011, 2:38 am

Jacoby wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I suppose that is the strategy you should choose when you can't defend your record. However, you certainly don't seem to be a believer of this so called "11th commandment".

BTW, Educating people on the positions of your primary opponents doesn't = "poop flinging". You'll never see Ron talking about Cain or Newt's multiple infidelities, he's simply too nice and too focused on the issues.


"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eleven ... ald_Reagan)


It would of been funnier if you were referring to thou shalt not get caught


Except that comes from the Democrat playbook, not out of the Republican one.



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04 Dec 2011, 7:12 am

Reason's current list of terrifying Gingrich quotes and positions:

Quote:
Since Newt Gingrich, currently the leading candidate for anti-Romney, comes across pretty well in my column this week (which quotes his comments on immigration), now may be a good time to remember some of the appalling positions he has taken over the years. Here I focus on civil liberties.

Freedom of speech: At a 2006 awards dinner dedicated to the First Amendment, Gingrich said freedom of speech must be curtailed to win the War on Terror: "This is a serious, long-term war. Either before we lose a city or, if we are truly stupid, after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of engagement that use every technology we can find to break up their capacity to use the Internet, to break up their capacity to use free speech, and to go after people who want to kill us to stop them from recruiting people." He admitted this strategy might provoke "a serious debate about the First Amendment."

Freedom of religion: During the 2010 debate over plans to build a mosque near the site of the World Trade Center, Gingrich's jingoistic demagoguery made Sarah Palin seem calm and nuanced. In contrast with Palin, who urged supporters of the Park 51 project not to build the mosque but conceded they had a constitutional right to do so, Gingrich demanded government action to stop them, saying "we should not tolerate" what the First Amendment requires us to tolerate. He insisted "there should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." In response to those who noted that interfering with the project because of its Muslim character would violate the Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom, he said "Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington." To understand what drove Gingrich's vehement opposition to Park 51, it might help to know he worries that in half a century the United States will be "a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists."

Drug policy: As speaker of the House in 1995, Gingrich backed the death penalty for drug smugglers, saying, "You import commercial quantities of drugs in the United States for the purpose of destroying our children, we will kill you." In 1998, a decade after Congress created mandatory minimum sentences that were widely condemned as senselessly severe (including the crack penalties it voted almost unanimously to reduce last year), Gingrich still wanted to "increase penalties for selling illegal drugs" and "impose mandatory jail sentences for selling illegal drugs." Asked recently whether he still believed in executing drug dealers, he hedged a bit, referring to murderous cartel leaders who are already subject to the death penalty. But he expressed admiration for Singapore's drug policy, which includes forcibly testing anyone suspected of drug use (including tourists), long prison sentences for possession, and mandatory execution of anyone caught with more than a specified amount of drugs (18 ounces of marijuana, for example). "They've been very draconian," Gingrich said, and he meant that as a compliment.

Judicial review: Gingrich thinks Congress should abolish the courts of judges who reach decisions it does not like. Alternatively, he says, it can simply declare its acts exempt from judicial review.

Privacy: Gingrich says he would not change a thing about the PATRIOT Act. In 2007 he called the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance of communications between people in the U.S. and people in other countries "clearly justifiable." He added, "I would argue that that even inside the U.S., the Congress should adopt a law that says when you're in doubt on terrorism [as opposed to ordinary criminal cases], go ahead and wiretap and file the report with the judge, but don't slow down; don't wait for the lawyers...I am not at all cautious about chasing terrorists very, very aggressively."

Due process: Gingrich argues, in essence, that due process can be suspended by crying "national security." Under criminal law, he said at the November 22 Republican presidential debate, "the government should be frankly on defense and you're innocent until proven guilty. National security, the government should have many more tools in order to save our lives." Like Romney, Gingrich believes the president has the authority to order the summary execution of people he identifies as enemies in the War on Terror. "If you engage in war against the United States," he said at the November 13 Republican presidential debate, "you have none of the civil liberties of the United States"—leaving unresolved the question of how to determine who is at war with the United States in an ill-defined, worldwide, never-ending conflict against a scattered, amorphous enemy.

I'm sure there is more. I welcome readers' suggestions.


http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/01/appal ... -newtspeak

There's certainly enough there to turn me off the guy, no matter how good a TV debater he might be.


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04 Dec 2011, 12:24 pm

Someone needs to bring up character and remind the audience that character is a big part of becoming a nominee and more so to become the POTUS. Then point out what happened when certain candidates didn't pass that character bar. And then ask "Why should that standard only apply to some people and not all", with the spot light on Gingrich. I know that wouldn't happen at this point in the race, but it would put a smile on my face to see Newt's reaction to it.

Maybe near the end, someone that has no chance will take that kamikaze mission.



Jacoby
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04 Dec 2011, 12:32 pm

snapcap wrote:
Someone needs to bring up character and remind the audience that character is a big part of becoming a nominee and more so to become the POTUS. Then point out what happened when certain candidates didn't pass that character bar. And then ask "Why should that standard only apply to some people and not all", with the spot light on Gingrich. I know that wouldn't happen at this point in the race, but it would put a smile on my face to see Newt's reaction to it.

Maybe near the end, someone that has no chance will take that kamikaze mission.


Sounds like a job for Rick "Don't Google My Name" Santorum



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04 Dec 2011, 7:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Reason's current list of terrifying Gingrich quotes and positions:

Quote:
Since Newt Gingrich, currently the leading candidate for anti-Romney, comes across pretty well in my column this week (which quotes his comments on immigration), now may be a good time to remember some of the appalling positions he has taken over the years. Here I focus on civil liberties.

Freedom of speech: At a 2006 awards dinner dedicated to the First Amendment, Gingrich said freedom of speech must be curtailed to win the War on Terror: "This is a serious, long-term war. Either before we lose a city or, if we are truly stupid, after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of engagement that use every technology we can find to break up their capacity to use the Internet, to break up their capacity to use free speech, and to go after people who want to kill us to stop them from recruiting people." He admitted this strategy might provoke "a serious debate about the First Amendment."

Freedom of religion: During the 2010 debate over plans to build a mosque near the site of the World Trade Center, Gingrich's jingoistic demagoguery made Sarah Palin seem calm and nuanced. In contrast with Palin, who urged supporters of the Park 51 project not to build the mosque but conceded they had a constitutional right to do so, Gingrich demanded government action to stop them, saying "we should not tolerate" what the First Amendment requires us to tolerate. He insisted "there should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia." In response to those who noted that interfering with the project because of its Muslim character would violate the Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom, he said "Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington." To understand what drove Gingrich's vehement opposition to Park 51, it might help to know he worries that in half a century the United States will be "a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists."

Drug policy: As speaker of the House in 1995, Gingrich backed the death penalty for drug smugglers, saying, "You import commercial quantities of drugs in the United States for the purpose of destroying our children, we will kill you." In 1998, a decade after Congress created mandatory minimum sentences that were widely condemned as senselessly severe (including the crack penalties it voted almost unanimously to reduce last year), Gingrich still wanted to "increase penalties for selling illegal drugs" and "impose mandatory jail sentences for selling illegal drugs." Asked recently whether he still believed in executing drug dealers, he hedged a bit, referring to murderous cartel leaders who are already subject to the death penalty. But he expressed admiration for Singapore's drug policy, which includes forcibly testing anyone suspected of drug use (including tourists), long prison sentences for possession, and mandatory execution of anyone caught with more than a specified amount of drugs (18 ounces of marijuana, for example). "They've been very draconian," Gingrich said, and he meant that as a compliment.

Judicial review: Gingrich thinks Congress should abolish the courts of judges who reach decisions it does not like. Alternatively, he says, it can simply declare its acts exempt from judicial review.

Privacy: Gingrich says he would not change a thing about the PATRIOT Act. In 2007 he called the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance of communications between people in the U.S. and people in other countries "clearly justifiable." He added, "I would argue that that even inside the U.S., the Congress should adopt a law that says when you're in doubt on terrorism [as opposed to ordinary criminal cases], go ahead and wiretap and file the report with the judge, but don't slow down; don't wait for the lawyers...I am not at all cautious about chasing terrorists very, very aggressively."

Due process: Gingrich argues, in essence, that due process can be suspended by crying "national security." Under criminal law, he said at the November 22 Republican presidential debate, "the government should be frankly on defense and you're innocent until proven guilty. National security, the government should have many more tools in order to save our lives." Like Romney, Gingrich believes the president has the authority to order the summary execution of people he identifies as enemies in the War on Terror. "If you engage in war against the United States," he said at the November 13 Republican presidential debate, "you have none of the civil liberties of the United States"—leaving unresolved the question of how to determine who is at war with the United States in an ill-defined, worldwide, never-ending conflict against a scattered, amorphous enemy.

I'm sure there is more. I welcome readers' suggestions.


http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/01/appal ... -newtspeak

There's certainly enough there to turn me off the guy, no matter how good a TV debater he might be.


I think it really says a lot about Gingrich, and other Republican candidates, that they have to seek the nomination of their voters by appealing to fear and out uglying each other. Particularly the way Gingrich makes a whole religion (Islam) out to be the enemy, and making nonsensical points like, there shouldn't be any Masques near ground zero as long as there are no churches in Saudi Arabia. Like Americans of the Muslim faith have any say when it comes to Saudi Arabia. I hate it when anyone makes comparisons between an American politician they dislike, and Hitler, but the fact is, Hitler scapegoated minorities like the Jews, just like Gingrich and other Republicans are doing with Muslim Americans. Attacking fellow Americans in order to make points is nothing short of low.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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04 Dec 2011, 7:32 pm

Sounds like a masterdebate


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04 Dec 2011, 7:51 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Sounds like a masterdebate


By the way, I meant to tell you, your new avatar is nothing short of hilarious. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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04 Dec 2011, 8:13 pm

Mrs Santa Claus has been busting my balls and stressing me out big time lately so I gave up walking and took up drinking


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04 Dec 2011, 8:20 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Mrs Santa Claus has been busting my balls and stressing me out big time lately so I gave up walking and took up drinking


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

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04 Dec 2011, 8:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I suppose that is the strategy you should choose when you can't defend your record. However, you certainly don't seem to be a believer of this so called "11th commandment".

BTW, Educating people on the positions of your primary opponents doesn't = "poop flinging". You'll never see Ron talking about Cain or Newt's multiple infidelities, he's simply too nice and too focused on the issues.


"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eleven ... ald_Reagan)


It would of been funnier if you were referring to thou shalt not get caught


Except that comes from the Democrat playbook, not out of the Republican one.


Really? The Republican playbook says to get caught? Well, you must be right. After all, you would know.



Inuyasha
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05 Dec 2011, 2:33 am

@ pandabear

Oh really, you better hope Herman Cain doesn't find proof that Axelrod (and team Obama) wasn't behind the smear campaign directed towards him. Cause if he does your annointed one is gonna get pounded in 2012 for sure.

@ Dox47

I really couldn't care less when people quote Gingrich out of context, we've already seen that the media has an annoying habit of deliberately misquoting Republicans to paint them in the worst possible light...



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05 Dec 2011, 3:12 am

*snort*
If Cain's alleged infidelities are indeed merely a swift-boating, it was more likely Perry than Obama. Obama would have loved being on a stage with that Cain; it would have emphasized just how much smarter Obama is.



Inuyasha
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05 Dec 2011, 3:16 am

LKL wrote:
*snort*
If Cain's alleged infidelities are indeed merely a swift-boating, it was more likely Perry than Obama. Obama would have loved being on a stage with that Cain; it would have emphasized just how much smarter Obama is.


Problem with your statement is that David Axelrod works for Obama, not Rick Perry.



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05 Dec 2011, 3:44 am

Do you have any actual evidence that Axelrod had anything to do with multiple women saying that Cain harassed them, or with one woman saying (and backing up) that she'd had a 13-year affair with him? Or is this just another Glenn Beck conspiracy theory?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... ies/44754/