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Vigilans
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05 Dec 2011, 7:31 pm

Mathematics. The beautiful language of the universe


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Abgal64
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05 Dec 2011, 8:24 pm

fraac wrote:
What's the difference between a new word from existing morphemes and a random neologism?
A random neologism creates a new morpheme while derivation or compounding, among other processes unified under the concept of synthesis, uses existing morphemes. "Groovy" is an example of the former while "computer", which could be broken down into "that/one (originally the latter) which computes" is an example of derivation, a type of the latter. To give an example of English's deficiency in creating new words by synthesis, look at the English word "electricity", derived from the Greek term for "amber" vs. Karuk's use of "imaxaynumvá'aah", meaning "lightning-fire", derived from its own native root of áah "fire; electric light; lantern" at heart. To further illustrate this point, have a glance at the page of the University of California Berkeley's Karuk-English Dictionary:

http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~karuk/ ... -position=

Notice how most of the words for things related to water are derived from a single root using affixation and compounding.


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ruveyn
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05 Dec 2011, 8:31 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Latin: because it's the language of the ancient Romans and it was also the language of the academic world throughout the middle ages, reformation era, and up until the end of the 19th century it had remained as the common language of those who valued knowledge more than silver or gold and wisdom more than rubies or diamonds.


Latin has the virtue of age and veneration. It is not inherently better than natural languages currently in use. You might as well through classic Attic Greek into the pot. That is the language that Plato and Aristotle wrote and spoke with.

ruveyn


Perhaps at sometime I will try to learn classical Greek since it is still somewhat useful also. It would be neat to study Euclid's Elements in its original language.


Half of the technical terms are already in English. English has borrowed many Greek root words. Examples: hexagon, pentagon. circle (kuklos in Greek), diagram (deeagramma in Greek) almost literally from the Greek.

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
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05 Dec 2011, 8:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Latin: because it's the language of the ancient Romans and it was also the language of the academic world throughout the middle ages, reformation era, and up until the end of the 19th century it had remained as the common language of those who valued knowledge more than silver or gold and wisdom more than rubies or diamonds.


Latin has the virtue of age and veneration. It is not inherently better than natural languages currently in use. You might as well through classic Attic Greek into the pot. That is the language that Plato and Aristotle wrote and spoke with.

ruveyn


Perhaps at sometime I will try to learn classical Greek since it is still somewhat useful also. It would be neat to study Euclid's Elements in its original language.


Half of the technical terms are already in English. English has borrowed many Greek root words. Examples: hexagon, pentagon. circle (kuklos in Greek), diagram (deeagramma in Greek) almost literally from the Greek.

ruveyn


With circle and at least first morpheme of dia-gram those would have traveled through Latin prior to being words in English. It still would be good to know the grammar in addition to the vocabulary, since vocabulary is not the language itself but the grammar is. A person can make themselves understood in a foreign language by merely using rudimentary vocabulary and their own first language's grammar to form a cipher, but it comes across as a disjointed usage of a language.



fraac
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05 Dec 2011, 9:25 pm

Abgal64 wrote:
fraac wrote:
What's the difference between a new word from existing morphemes and a random neologism?
A random neologism creates a new morpheme while derivation or compounding, among other processes unified under the concept of synthesis, uses existing morphemes. "Groovy" is an example of the former while "computer", which could be broken down into "that/one (originally the latter) which computes" is an example of derivation, a type of the latter. To give an example of English's deficiency in creating new words by synthesis, look at the English word "electricity", derived from the Greek term for "amber" vs. Karuk's use of "imaxaynumvá'aah", meaning "lightning-fire", derived from its own native root of áah "fire; electric light; lantern" at heart. To further illustrate this point, have a glance at the page of the University of California Berkeley's Karuk-English Dictionary:

http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~karuk/ ... -position=

Notice how most of the words for things related to water are derived from a single root using affixation and compounding.


Ah, cool. I got the impression that English didn't so much branch out from existing morphemes because it had a breadth of sources to borrow from, like how we use Anglo-Saxon words for animals and French words for animal meats, or words for different kinds of rain originating from different places. Maybe it would use the Karuk method if no other options were available?



phil777
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05 Dec 2011, 10:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:
There is no "best language". Just about every human natural language is capable of framing just about any idea, impression, thought, inclination etc. that anyone could think of. The Human Race is wired ab iniitio for blabber.

Some languages may be more musical and smooth to listen to than others. Some may be easier to pronounce than others but all have the capability of carrying idea.

rjuveyn


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visagrunt
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06 Dec 2011, 12:32 pm

It depends upon purpose.

For singing in western music, Italian is by far the best choice because of the significant number of terminal vowels.
But for legal drafting, English has by far the richest vocabulary with the deepest range of judicial consideration.
For poetry, I'll put up Latin. Because it is an inflected language, word order is mutable meaning that a given phrase can be easily aligned with rhythmic patterns.

But these are pretty artificial constructs. The truth of the matter is that we can sing, recite and draft in any language, and the best language is the language that enables us to communicate effectively with our respective communities. All other purposes are, 'nice-to-haves.'


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06 Dec 2011, 1:17 pm

I like the way spoken Japanese sounds.
I took many years of French classes but still could barely understand a word of spoken French because of the slurred/mumbled French accent. Spoken Japanese is FAR easier for a non-native to understand.
Irish sounds like Tolkien Elvish, so that's kind of cool.

I am more "into" accents - identifying and mimicking them - than I am languages.