Page 2 of 5 [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,684
Location: Houston, Texas

06 Jan 2012, 11:38 am

I don;t have any available right now, but it seems like people have a problem with christians.

What would be the most likely reasons?



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

06 Jan 2012, 11:53 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
I don;t have any available right now, but it seems like people have a problem with christians.



Not ALL Christians. Just the obnoxious Christians.

Quiet Christians who keep their religion at home or in their churches do not present any problems to me. People who go out on the street and Preach the Word and make nuisances of themselves, that is a different story.

ruveyn



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

06 Jan 2012, 12:14 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I don;t have any available right now, but it seems like people have a problem with christians.

People have a problem with tons of people.

But you claimed the media was demonizing Christians.


_________________
.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,951
Location:      

06 Jan 2012, 1:15 pm

It isn't that Christians are being demonized by anyone other than themselves; it's as I said before...

Fnord wrote:
Why do Christians act demonically where the media can take notice?

Seriously, if Christians don't want to be demonized, then they should stop acting demonically - in public, at least.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

06 Jan 2012, 1:24 pm

Uh... what? When does Fox News, the media organization that seems to matter most to America, demonize Christians...?


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


WilliamWDelaney
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,201

06 Jan 2012, 1:25 pm

Why does it bother you? I don't lose any sleep over black people who don't like white people. I don't lose any sleep over the fact that some women just hate men, not because of a feminist ideology but because they simply hate men. This is the real world, and there are going to be people who disagree with you and who find you to be disagreeable. In the real world, only a tiny minority of the human race can stand to be around you for longer than is really necessary: they are called "friends."

What I find really appalling is that some fundamentalists act like you have committed some horrific crime if you say, "you know I think religion kind of blows." Maybe that's why, when atheists are confronted with this kind of attitude, they lay into you with a vengeance. It's because this attitude that some fundamentalists have that, even if you're not religious, you ought to go around talking about what great guys those Christians are, even if many sects of Christianity have abusive and extremely nasty attitudes toward minorities that happen, for some of us, to be friends, family, neighbors and coworkers. People have a right to not like you or to not like your ideas.

If an atheist says, "I think we'd all be better off without religion," and you're one of those people who go wide-eyed and go "Oh, my god, how could you!" Be thankful that you haven't had your teeth knocked out for being an a**hole. Better yet, you ought to be thankful that most atheists tend to be pacifists and tend to exercise better morals than fundamentalist asshats ever have.

Hell, what are people who didn't grow up around religious people supposed to think when you say insane crap like, "If God wouldn't punish me for killing people, I'd go around killing everybody just for fun." Hey, I know you are full of crap when you say that because I grew up with that kind of obnoxious crap, but some people hear that crap and think you're crazy. Some people hear about Pentacostals "speaking in tongues" and think, "these guys are dangerous!" You can't just expect everyone to uncritically love Christians and everything about them just because you think it's supposed to be a law of nature or something. Just like everyone else, you have to deal with people who don't really get along with you.

You know, there were once laws against heresy in Europe, and I actually know some of the history behind this thinking. It really got its start in Persia, and the Jews aren't to blame for it as most people think. In fact, it might be hard to believe now, but there was a time when this was considered to be an ultra-modern, super-progressive idea. It might sound crazy, but there actually was a time when it was cutting-edge, ultra-liberal thinking to believe that we could all have one religion and all worship one god. What everyone believed was that everything in the whole wide world would be swell except these tiny minorities who always upset everything, and everything would be great if everyone were made to believe in the same thing and think in the same way. Is any of this sounding familiar? If you've ever complained about "political correctness," I know you're not blind to what is wrong with this.

Long, bloody and horrific wars were fought to bring about this paradise where everyone agreed with each other. Like Communism, it seemed like a wonderful idea to a lot of people at one time. It seemed like a wonderful way to create a utopia where everybody got along nicely, and everything was going to be swell. It almost destroyed civilization.



Laz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Dec 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,540
Location: Dave's Toilet

06 Jan 2012, 2:01 pm

Fundamentally speaking, on a personal level it is never about the individuals belief or identification with a particular religious denomination. To demonise such people is just a personal attack on them, though they have their own moral responsibility to have a conciouss understanding of the heirarchy they support in an organisation they are part of. The point were issue's arise is at the top of the collective organisation and those in positions of authority who use such a position to further their own political agenda or to exploit those who have put trust in them. Such people are exploiting the trust of those they are charged with and are abusing their position of authority and power for personal gain and/or a political agenda

We have an ever growing list of such people when they "fall from grace" such as the wonderful Ted Haggard and his adventures with sodomy and rent boy felatio on ecstasy. Anyone who values democracy should have concern for someone who boasts of his political influence in such a way that he did.


_________________
"Tall people can be recognized by three things: generosity in the design, humanity in the execution and moderation in success"


snapcap
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,328

06 Jan 2012, 2:22 pm

Maybe they'd pick on other religions, but they are afraid to.

How Jewish is Hollywood?


Quote:
The Jews are so dominant, I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies. When I called them to talk about their incredible advancement, five of them refused to talk to me, apparently out of fear of insulting Jews. The sixth, AMC President Charlie Collier, turned out to be Jewish.


_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*

some atheist to stick: "You're like me!"


Ellendra
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 127
Location: Wi, USA

06 Jan 2012, 2:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Ellendra wrote:
Because they can?

I see it happening a lot here on WP, too. There are a few members who seem to think it's their purpose in life to twist every topic into a slam on Christians. Personally, I think it's a sign of their own unresolved personal issues, but if they want to pretend they're actually convincing anyone, they can go ahead.


Do you not see any validity in the criticism of the extreme Evangelicals, these pestiferous nuisances who spend their time shoving their religion up any exposed orifice they can find?

ruveyn



That depends. What if what was being shoved was not religion, but some other opinion? Would you still be as vehement toward them if they were shoving their vegetarianism? Thei atheism? Their environmentalism? Their politics? What if what's being shoved is something you agreed on to begin with?

If you would treat that the same way you treat those extreme evangelicals, then yes, there is value. If not, then all you do is expose such a strong prejudice that I am more likely to question whether they were being as obnoxious as you claim, or if they simply touched one of your exposed nerves?



Laz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Dec 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,540
Location: Dave's Toilet

06 Jan 2012, 2:30 pm

Do such ideologies demand special treatment in society, a monopoly on moral authority, the recieving of tax breaks or (tythes in the case of state religion) the intolerance of certain groups in society and excemption from the laws of the land when it comes to discrimination of such groups all in one go? They may do one or two of these things but to get the whole package you need to first call it a religion


_________________
"Tall people can be recognized by three things: generosity in the design, humanity in the execution and moderation in success"


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,684
Location: Houston, Texas

06 Jan 2012, 3:28 pm

Fundamentalism of any kind is not good, but it seems like the Christian ones are the only ones that get a bad rap, even more so than Islamic extremists.

It's that the media seems to be biased against them, and people think that only Christians are capable of being intolerant.



WilliamWDelaney
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,201

06 Jan 2012, 4:01 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
...people think that only Christians are capable of being intolerant.
No, it's not so much intolerance as being pompous and arrogant. For example, it pisses off religious minorities and atheists when you behave as if they don't exist in mixed company. Other Christians, who have many different doctrines and beliefs, don't like being snubbed, either. In fact, one of the main reasons many people absolutely hate fundamentalists (and sometimes take it out on people not at fault, unfortunately) is their highly offensive tendency to outright snub other viewpoints.

I remember off of My Cousin, Vinny, when the prosecutor said, "in England, where all of our little ancestors come from," it cut to a shot of a black woman on the jury looking appalled and outraged. Because people don't like being snubbed.



androbot2084
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,447

06 Jan 2012, 4:03 pm

A fundamentalist told me that pacifism is not Christian.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

06 Jan 2012, 4:44 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I don;t have any available right now, but it seems like people have a problem with christians.

People have a problem with tons of people.

But you claimed the media was demonizing Christians.
Still not finding any sign that the media demonizing Christians is true.


_________________
.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

06 Jan 2012, 6:31 pm

Ellendra wrote:

If you would treat that the same way you treat those extreme evangelicals, then yes, there is value. If not, then all you do is expose such a strong prejudice that I am more likely to question whether they were being as obnoxious as you claim, or if they simply touched one of your exposed nerves?


I find imposing opinions in a discourteous and obnoxious fashion displeasing regardless of what the opinions are. One may well -express- an opinion (we all do) but imposing an opinion in a socially unacceptable way is beyond the pale.

ruveyn



raisedbyignorance
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,225
Location: Indiana

06 Jan 2012, 8:28 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Fundamentalism of any kind is not good, but it seems like the Christian ones are the only ones that get a bad rap, even more so than Islamic extremists.

It's that the media seems to be biased against them, and people think that only Christians are capable of being intolerant.


It has alot to do with the image of a particular religion. For many, Christianity is perceived as a religion based around love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Therefore it's hard to understand how a religion like that could be responsible for such events like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition two major events that have major genocides behind them. It's hard to understand how the most powerful church in Europe would turn a blind eye on the Holocaust. It's hard to understand how a religion that was founded in Jesus being a friend to the flawed and nonChristian would become, in modern day times, a religion that puts itself on a social hierarchy that bullies and belittles people who don't fit into their system for one reason or another. And while this does not represent everyone, it's gone to such an extreme that you have people like Fred Phelps and you can't help but notice. There are also those churches who practically Satanized Islam (or anyone who looked it) after 9-11 without doing their research on the difference between a normal Muslim and an extremist one. Such things have build up the bad rep for Christianity over the years/centuries until it escalated to near common behavior for Christians in modern times. It's gotten to the point where no one knows what differentiates actual Christianity from hypocritical Christianity anymore. Such is often going to be addressed by the media.