what you know about near death experiences?

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The falsehood of your observation offends me.


Without valid empirical evidence to support a claim, the claim is itself invalid.


Wrong. Committing the Fallacy of Appeal to Ignorance - such as you have done - also invalidates the associated claim.


Perform your alleged OBE, and then tell me What Is In The Box (link). Go ahead ... I'll wait.

Of course, I expect you to response with either a rhetorical word salad or at least one lame excuse as to why something you believe in can not be done.

And you have just proven your own ignorance. An out of body experience is NOT telepathy. Could you please point out where I claimed I could read your mind to find out was in the box, or somehow divine what is in it? Or go and find the box and open it?

The only time I ever had an out of body experience, I was high as a kite and it was like I was looking down on myself, like some kind of overhead view game. It wasn't controlled, and it scared the hell out of me. It lasted about ten minutes.

Please, tell me what about that experience would allow me to tell what was in the box, or admit that it is not a valid test. You are ignorant of what an out of body experience even IS and yet you claim to be able to test it.

Go away and read a little about it. You might learn something.

Fnord,

If you don't believe in the subjects contained in this thread, why even post? Why do you feel obligated to impose on us with your demands for evidence and whatnot, me personally, and probably a few others that have replied are far beyond the need for proof and we understand you're awareness and beliefs are not in favor of these ideas . So my suggestion would be, if you feel the need to find evidence, go do your own research and try and make your own experience. That's your responsibility. Let us have our discussion.

Thank you

I never said it was.


If OOBE is as I understand it, then a person who claims to be able to do it should be able to leave his or her body, find the box, determine its contents, return to his or her body, and then report his or her findings. In essence, alleged OOBE practitioners allegedly assume an immaterial form that can pass through walls, travel to a destination whether or not they know where they are going, see what is there whether or not the location is lighted, and remember what they have seen when they re-incorporate.


Oh ... drugs were involved. That definitely puts your claim in doubt.


Unfortunately, a single drug-induced hallucination does not qualify as an OOBE; so no matter what test is devised, it is likely you could not pass it.


Kid, I was apprenticed to my cousin, who claimed to be a "white" witch, for over a year. During that time, I learned more about alleged "psychic" phenomenae than you may realize. One of the things I learned was a working knowledge of all things "psychic", but the most important thing I learned was that it is all fake.

You have merely confirmed my earlier lessons.

Thank you.

I am hoping that someone will prove me wrong with one simple demonstration of his or her alleged psychic abilities.

So when I say, "Evidence, please?" I really mean it! Show me what you can do. Until that time, I can truthfully state that there is no valid empirical evidence to support any claim for the existence of any alleged psychic abilities.


I have, and I still do. Unfortunately, no such evidence has been demonstrated, although there are many invalid claims.

I guess some people would rather be believed without proof than ever demonstrate the alleged validity of their claims.

Many real things have been thought of as fake throughout history, and then proven to be true. Gorillas were at one point thought of much as we now think of Sasquatch.

The bolded underlined text in your quote are other replies I made btw, not sure if you noticed. I'm doing the same thing here.

You have an obsession with it being something controlled, don't you?

Do you control your instincts? Can you say... stop eating for a long period of time without feeling hunger? Control pain if you broke a bone? In my experience, psychic stuff works much the same way. Some people have claimed to be able to see what they wanted too, however. Usually through dreams, or mediums who "speak to the dead".

As far as telekinesis, pyrokinesis (controlling fire with your mind), that kind of thing ignore what I said, it definitely applies there.

Then your definition of OOBE seems to follow the medically-accepted definition of "Hallucination".

I had assumed that you were claiming the alleged OOBE experience of "Astral Projection" instead.

My mistake.

I apologize.

It's all good, the main point that I was trying to make is that OOBE's are not all of one type. Some (like mine) are just a vivid and real seeming hallucination.

It's not some unnatural voodoo, it's just VERY unnerving.

I know, I've hallucinated right after taking vicodin for a tooth extraction, and right before barfing it all up. Horrible experience.

I just wouldn't trust witness testimony from anyone who got parts of his brain fried due to lack of oxygen.

You missed the point. You're asking for evidence of something that couldn't have evidence. And I never said I believed in it, so don't put words in my mouth and run with it. Of course, I expect you to respond with either another remark that proves you're not listening, or some false accusation based entirely on an assumption about what I'm thinking.

Some things seem to have a common thread with NDEs, including using psychedelics ( at the point it becomes a NDE, I don't think psychedelic is the write word for it), epileptic episodes, paranormal experiences, and episodes that happen right out of the blue.

I used to date a girl and we went to visit her brother, and as soon as we got there we came in to him wiping tears off his face because he was just visited by the Holy Ghost that happened to give him a life review. As far as I know, he wasn't really religious and didn't have a history of seizures. He was overweight, and he was gay, and he was battling with that and not everyone he knew knew that. It seems like it just came out of the blue, but I'm sure there was an explanation for it that wasn't obvious.

OBEs... they remind me of some other related "phenomenon" known as "starchildren". People that claim they can leave their body and travel through the stars. Both are equally ridiculous. The only thing they prove is how powerful the human imagination is. As for NDEs, I strongly suspect it is the equivalent of "death twitches" inside the human brain. Since your brain is where your consciousness is "stored", as it dies the random firing of neurons is probably evident to whatever is "left" of the consciousness on some level. In a similar way to the manner of dreams forming, what is left of the consciousness will attempt to "defragment" the input it is receiving, and make it something that makes sense.

There is nothing ridiculous about OOBE's. They are bloody terrifying in my opinion. Think a bad acid trip or some such.

Funny you should mention psychedelics. LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline are all known to cause them [OBEs]. Since, at least with LSD, the compound itself is metabolized very quickly, but the effects last for a long time, after the compound is long gone. That means the capability to "manifest" an OBE exists inherently to the Human brain. I strongly suspect it plays a role in spatial awareness, the ability to picture oneself in a three dimensional environment. One's mind probably "runs" the "OBE simulation" regularly as a "background process" that contributes to your total situational/spatial awareness. This is my own conjecture but at least give me some credit for taking OBEs seriously as a topic of investigation. I think that the more "elaborate" descriptions of them are probable hoaxes or hallucinations, however.