How should animal cruelty be dealt with?

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I completely agree.

Okay, now I read the responses. As far as ants and insects and the like, go, I don't know, I guess I don't have a response to that. I just feel like certain animals like cats and dogs in the US are above that. Sorry if that makes me sound insensitive. It is just US culture. I will exterminate ants but if someone beats a cat, I will want to chop their head off (not literally but figuratively of course).

Torturing a cat or dog or horse is very different than exterminating an ant in my opinion. Torture is different from peaceful execution.

I don't have a problem with humane killing of animals, but whenever torture is involved, I get sensitive about the issue. Unfortunately, it is all too common.

i do not know. i am not qualified to judge the value of lives in a comparitive way.
it is silly that you draw the focus to such a basal field of view.
i make sure that bacteria are not easily able to live around me, and that is simply me defending my own right to live. i do not really have any conscience about disinfecting something that i fear may be infected with pathogens that will make me sick.

but if i was asked if i wanted to sterilize a tree stump in canada, i would say no.
i do not have any personal identification with bacteria ((although there was a cute little bacterium i sort of fell for when i was looking through a microscope once (i lost track of it and it broke my heart))joke) so i do not know what their lives are like. i guess they may not be conscious but i can not be sure. if something does not threaten me, it will not be killed by me.


i can not be bothered to respond to your question directly because i do not think it is well thought out.

i accidentally step on ants often i am sure. i can not be bothered to make sure that the pavement under each of my footsteps is clear of life before i tread on it. it is their accidental death if i step on them. there is no cruelty because i did not decide they should suffer or die. if i was killed tomorrow by a car, then it is the same thing. just bad luck.

i do have concern for insects however i must say. 2 years ago, i had an ant problem and they were infesting my kitchen, and i got some "ant-rid" fluid which was claimed to be able to kill the queen and vanquish the entire nest.

i squirted some drops of it on the sink and the bench tops, and before long, there were a party of ants all guzzling the fluid. they seemed to be in heaven drinking up the sweet fluid, and i was satisfied that it would solve my problem. a few days later the ants were gone. not only that, but there were no ants outside either. no ants on the path or anywhere to be seen.

i suddenly realized i had killed the entire nest including the queen and i felt horribly sorry. i did not want to go that far. i just wanted them to stop coming into the kitchen, but i did not want to stop them from living altogether.

the other night, i saw a big black cockroach on my carpet and i automatically freaked out. before i knew what i was doing, i sprayed him with insecticide. i imagined it crawling over my face when i went to sleep and he was a very rapid mover and i could not have caught him. when i sprayed him, he immediately went into agonized convulsions, and i thought "no! no! no! i didn't mean to do that to you" and he went still after about 20 seconds. i do not feel guilt per se, but i felt very guilty about what i did to him. i ended his life because i did not like the look of him and for all i know, he was clean.

he could not have infected any food i have because it is all in sealed cupboards and in my fridge. i guess he would have scouted about and then left after he found nothing to eat.

i did not give him the chance. i killed him and i felt (and still do feel) horrible about that.

you may mock me for having concerns for such lowly forms of life (in your opinion), but i do not feel embarrassed that you consider me to be somewhat maligned in my feelings toward all lives.




yes i am closed to people like you who quizzically challenge the validity of my reality.

It strongly depends on the animal: Cephalopods, freshwater elephantfish, cetaceans, elephants, primates, parrots and, arguably, pigs should take intensive reeducation through labor, as they are, as I like to call them, "semi-sapients" (though I am conflicted with regards to pigs, as they seem to be not quite in this category): Not nearly as valuable as the average human but certainly far more than a rat, cow, insect or snail. I am a pescitarian yet I do not eat squid, octopi, cuttlefish nor, even if offered them in Central Africa, Cornish Jack.

With regards to other animal species, probably being barred from owning pets, mandatory counseling and having to do moderate or light community service makes the most sense.

People who are cruel to animals should experience the same cruelty themselves.

If we're defining animal cruelty as deliberately inflicting pain or suffering then it's not out of the realm of law or reason to get a prison sentence or jail term, depending. It has happened if the circumstances were bad enough.
A while back I was talking to a local cop that had been on an arrest that afternoon for a dog beating. The guy had come home and for whatever reason beat his female pit bull half to death with his fists. He even fractured the skull around her eye socked and caused the loss of that eye on top of other things. They busted him right there and hauled his ass off to jail. The cop said that that guy could expect to get raked over the coals. The dog ended up going to a shelter from which I hope she got adopted out.
My dog is a rescued pit bull that had been abused and the emotion scars ran deep in her. I can attest to the fact that dogs DO have nightmares.

They have long memories too.

A family friend adopted an abused dog who had been beaten many times by one man, and even now (years later) around ANY man that dog will get defensive. Women are fine, however.

Social shunning + jail time if its serious + intense laborious community service + followed by more social shunning.

It' would be good for them, and good for our children to see that we do not look highly on unnecessary torture of animals and that it is unethical.

Should they be hated forever or should they have a chance to redeem themselves?

but of course. penitentiary is rooted in the word penitence, which means to feel remorse or sorry for the wrong you've done. It is a.) important that this really gets through to them and b.) even way way way way more important that society learns that this behavior will not be tolerated. The whole process is redemptive, and the social shunning can come in many ways including talking to people who've adopted tortured animals, attending classes, the community service, etc. Cruelty to animals almost always increases the chances of one being cruel to humans. (Even though nice-ness to animals doesn't always correlate with niceness to humans.)

Yet you still eat them, that I will never get. Since "I"ve been their done that" I can confirm that mental problems can drive people to this,( I shan't elaborate), ,I feel horrid for the things that I did in that state, I know I am not bad person( diminished responsibilities), I am vegan, after all , donate to animal charities and adopt birds from shelters, I am so so in love with animals I'm seriously considering never adopting animals again as I fear of a relapse ie medication could suddenly wear off.

Don't be so judgemental of these people ,they may and deserve all the help they can get.

Studies have shown that many people who commit serious violent crimes, started off by abusing animals. It doesn't take prison to make them more violent. They are already violent. Giving people convicted of animal cruelty a taste of prison, is not inappropriate or too harsh IMHO.

Will it do anything to stop them? Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but we have to try anyway.

My steaks dont look that abused, when I pass them everyday. Normally, they seem to be quiet more happy, then I am. Could be because of them standing on a green field, while I need to drive to work.

Maybe you have forgotten, that there are still real farms left, not only that lousy flesh, illness and horror factories. I wouldnt like to miss that feeling of being forced to drive more careful along certain farms, because of them having some noisy chickens, that always want to pick along the greenways beside the street. ^^

Not that much more expensive. There are all ready a lot of free-range animal products sold, and the price is very comparable.

Personally I would be happy to pay a reasonable extra charge for my meat, to make sure that the animals are treated well.

No hypocrisy there. It's just part of the natural food chain.

it seems that someone has lifted the covers off your cage.

you bolded part of what i wrote that i never bolded, so i will focus on that point in my reply.


they are already dead when i eat them.

i bought a "scotch filet" steak today from my local "butcher (what a sinister job description)", but i only bought it because it was dead. if i did not buy it then someone else would have, and even if no-one bought it, maggots would eventually devour it. it may as well be me who consumes it.

if i refused to ever buy meat again, there would be a reduction in the amount of steaks sold. there would be 2 steaks that would not be required every week, and so if there were 300 million steaks eaten every week in the world, then that would mean that my refusal to eat meat would drop that number to 299,999,998 steaks per week.

there is nothing i can personally do about the meat eating human situation. i like meat. i do not want to see a picture of the cow it came from.
one could say that "conscientious objection" is an altruistic possibility, but "conscientious objectors" are dreamers who amplify their achievements by associating their "objections" with unconnected advances
to solutions to their cause (that may be entirely uninfluenced by any "conscientious objector").


been where and done what? you should have used the word "there" instead of "their", but i deciphered it none the less. so...been where and done what?

you are someone who is sorely devoid of the faculty of elaboration, and it is a major pity because that is your primary communicative difficulty.... lack of elaboration.




do you have some sort of unresolved guilt that percolates within you?

whether or not i choose to eat meat will have an insignificant impact on the availability of meat.

It would be more expensive definately. Just how much more depends on where you are buying from and how far it has to travel to get to you. I dabbled in free range, grass fed, humanely raised meat shipped from great distances and was about 50% more expensive to more than double the price (when shipped from New Zealand to the US). Then I discovered (because I started actually looking) that there is a farm only about 20 miles from my house that sells beef, lamb, chicken and eggs. Now I regularly drive there and buy from them. I know for a fact it is humanely raised because I can see the animals wandering about just like it was 1920. Because I am buying direct from the farmer, it is only about 30% more expensive.

I know that it is part (geographical) luck and mostly money that allows this. It's because I can afford a car to drive there, can afford a house with a spare freezer, can afford the extra 30% in price that I can do this. There are people who sneer at this as a class-based luxury (which it currently is, although it used to be the norm for everyone) but people who pay for this are what keeps these small, humane farms in business. They are the thin line that separates us from being totally dependent on either CAFO meat or becoming vegetarians. They are essential to the future of food (which needs to be more like the past) and I am happy to be able to unhypocritically support them.


As to the OP, I think donnie darko has good suggestions. Community service is an excellent idea. I would like to see them put in their service time at one of these small farms, which need help to survive. They could clean excrement out of the stalls. But that might be more trouble than it's worth for the farmers.

As to the CAFO companies that abuse the animals they raise? I would like to see far more stringent controls along with heavy fines for violating those controls. I would like to see routine antibiotic use banned. Routine antibiotic use is what allows much of the torturous conditions to continue. The animals would die of the infections caused by their crowded horrific conditions but they survive to slaughtering time only because they spend their whole lives on antibiotics. In order to raise an animal without routine antibiotics, you have to give it healthy room. Banning routine antibiotics would mandate giving the animals room, otherwise they wouldn't survive. That would make the meat more expensive but not in a truly prohibitive way that would force poor people to vegetarianism (which I think is unhealthy*). Less desired cuts of meat that require more cooking to be palatable (such as stew) would remain cheap.

*edited to add: I realize many studies have linked meat consumption to poor health outcomes. None of these studies have differentiated between CAFO meat and small farm humanley raised meat. The confounding variable of sickly animals, consumed medications and an improper 06/03 polyunsaturated fat ratio (due to an improper diet in the animals) is never accounted for.

Last edited by Janissy on 11 Jul 2013, 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.