Why don't they just take Sudafed off the market?

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The War on Drugs is a war on the American people, particularly poor people. You can not stop drug use and it's not with in the government's rights to tell me what I can and cannot put in my body.

If you ban Sudafed, it changes nothing! You just increase the profits for the criminals! I suppose maybe that could help us out since our own government dabbles heavily in the drug trade, could use it to pay down our national debt. HA! More likely is that they'd use the money to fund some terrorists... AHEM... freedom fighters.

Indeed, and you can get all the ingredients for a small batch at Walmart.

Gatorade bottle, some lithium coin cells, coleman fuel . . .

Sudafed is a wonderful product. For some who can't tolerate antihistamines it's a good choice. People will find a way to synthesize drugs any way they can. In fact in many markets Sudafed is held behind the counter now to try and prevent meth mills.

You don't need Sudafed to cook Meth, that is just how small time outfits cook it quick, cheap, and dirty.

Just saying, you make Sudafed a perscription and it wont get rid of meth, it will still be manufactured by people who know what they're doing, and it will still come over the borders.

^ I'm not saying "Lets take Sudafed off the market and stop meth". I'm saying if they want to do everything to stop meth, like they say they do, why don't they take it off the market? It would certainly cut down on the number of dope cooks. I believe they are hypocrites and if they had a choice between stopping folks from cooking and making busts, they would pick making busts. They whine about meth but they don't do everything in their power to stop it, they just do everything in their power to track down the cooks.

And no, you don't need sudafed to make it, but that method is a bit more complicated than the average good ole boy tweaker could probably handle.

They took benzedrex (sp?) inhalers off the market a long time ago and you never see kitchen crank anymore. I'm sure somebody makes it, somewhere, but it's not all over the place like it used to be. They know that. They know that if they took sudafed off the market there wouldn't be as many cooks, and they would have a much harder time tracking them down. It's all about busts.

Sudafed is behind the counter here. You have to have a valid drivers license or valid state ID and be over 18 to buy it. They scan your license with the thing and scan the bar code also. That scan links your license to that particular box. If the cops come in and bust the cook before he burns his trash and they find the empty boxes with the bar codes still attached, or even the bar codes cut out and thrown in the same garbage can as the other trash (yeah, rocket scientists in the making there) they can scan it and find out who bought that box and where, and then come and arrest the buyer and charge them with obtaining precursers. So they get not only the cook and who ever else might be in the house at the time, but also 3 - 5 other people who may not even be there who bought them the boxes. They have more arrests by keeping it legal than they would by making it harder to get and thus cutting down on the number of cooks going on.

Which action would someone who truly wanted to stop or at least reduce the amount of meth thats around take? I don't think it's about stopping meth, I think it's about arrests.

It's already off the market here in Mississippi. And that sucks for me because I frequently get colds and subsequent sinus infections. I depend heavily on Sudafed to recover quickly from upper respiratory problems. I use it in combination with Mucinex to ward off bacterial infection and Tylenol to reduce inflammation. Without Sudafed, my symptoms last up to 2 weeks, sometimes longer. With it, I'm typically over my ills in 3 days or less.

I don't particularly enjoy the side effects. I get really jittery withdrawals, and I feel like some of my symptoms momentarily get worse after I stop meds altogether. But after a day I'm right as rain. It's the best thing you can have to get through cold season.

But I hate having to spend all the extra money going to a doc for a prescription. It's not fair. And I think there is a limit on how often you can get a prescription. That's fine with me, I guess, if they have to make it prescription only. What I typically do is I use until my stash runs out and tough out my next cold without any kind of meds. The two times I'll go to the doc, and I get a big enough stash after two doc visits that I can stretch my supply out for at least a year. Last year I had some family who got some for me when I went out of state and got sick and forgot to bring my own. So for a while I had the little red dots and the horse pills and maybe saw the doc one time in two years. I have one sudo left, and I'll probably save it until after I get my next prescrip.

heh....

I am AngelRho, and I am a sudo-head.

I didn't know that about Mississippi. I'm in Alabama and here it's behind the counter and you have to show your ID and sign for it. What part of Ms you in? I'm in West Alabama. About two hours up 82 from Steens. If you are in East Ms, you could drive over here and get some with an ID.

Does phynlproponolamine not work as well as sudafed for you? Claritin works well for me, and Zyrtec. We have that for the kids. Couldn't the dr give you a renewable script? It's not a schedule drug so it can have renewals on it. You need like 90 of the Sudafed PE to make a batch so if he gave you 20 a month with 3 refills, that would be more than enough to hold you for almost a year wouldn't it? Or do you have to take it more than that?

One thing I found that works better than any med is ginger. I never believed in natural remidies until I had to try them. When I was pregnant with my second baby I got that SOBRA Medicaid and I couldn't go to a private dr, only this clinic near where I lived in Bham. It was all residents and interns and you didn't even see an attending. I was uncomfortable with how new they were and I wanted someone with more experience to take care of me. I found a lay midwife and had a homebirth. She can't prescribe so she uses natural things. She's way into that. She does send you to a dr if you need one and she knows an awful lot about OB/GYN and newborns. Anyway, I had gotten sick with an upper respiratory infection and asked what I could take. She told me what I could get at the drugstore but she suggested I try something first. It worked better than any drug I've had.

This is what you do. Get a piece of fresh ginger root from the grocery store. Cut off about a two inch piece and then wrap the rest in plastic wrap, never foil, and put it in the fridge. Peel the piece you cut off and chop it. Put it in a glass or plastic bowl and then pour boiling water over it. Lean over it with a towel over your head and breath the steam until it cools so it's gone. Have Kleenex there because it will open you up but good and you'll pour! I stayed open for about 4 or 5 hours after. I use that to this day for me and my kids. You should try it. I was surprised, but it really works.

Hey, thanks for the advice! I'll keep that under consideration.

I'm in the Delta (Greenville). So driving to Alabama is a no-go. I'm not 100% sure, but I THINK you can go to Arkansas. I live within 10 miles of the Mississippi River bridge, but I also worry about whether it's even worth it. I got sick once when I took a trip to New Orleans. Louisiana (at that time, anyway) would let you sign for it with an ID but because Mississippi laws had changed they required a prescription. I don't want to drive all the way out to, say, Lake Village just to have to turn around and go see the doctor anyway.

I've never really even considered alternatives. You CAN get phenylephrine HCl. But for me it's just garbage. All it does for me is increase my heart rate, and any actual benefit I get I wonder if it's not just a placebo effect. I think sometimes it just makes me feel worse. I don't think I've ever seen "phynlproponolamine." Claritin and Zyrtec are antihistamines and wouldn't really help me much since I don't suffer from allergies (my wife keeps Claritin in business here, though!). Sudo is treated like a schedule drug here.

I'm so jealous that you got to do homebirth. My wife wanted to do something like that, and it certainly does eliminate a lot of the costs of a hospital birth. My she was placenta previa with my daughter, though, and you can't find doctors around here who allow VBACs. They say there's too much risk of uterine rupture. I call shens on it, of course, but I'm not going to get my way on this one. We're putting off our next C-section as long as possible, and we're thinking we'll deliver in late April.

In the political realm it seems like many conflicting groups have their tendrils everywhere and in that sense, looking at it like there is a consistant 'them' won't lead you to much in the way of sensible answers.

I can't say much on the pseudoephedrine bit or why sudafed is legal. There are other other psychoactive substances in this area of medicine as well; good example is dextromethorphan hybromide (DXM) that is a cough suppressant and has a bit of the old mushroom/LSD effect but clearly different in its own ways. Yes, its less detrimental in the sense that you can't cook it into something like meth and being that its more of a psychedelic there's a limit to how much people want to use it (its got other weird effects like reverse tolerance and other long term goodies) but I suppose on one hand pharma and doctors may be concerned with just how much of the over-the-counter stuff could be classified as abuseable and, if so, where the changes in status would stop, or they may be worried about extra liabilities, expenses, lawsuits, etc. (I don't know that this is the case necessarily but it seems like a potential piece of the puzzle).

The other part on the drug war, I get the impression that the cartels themselves like the fact that its illegal, especially in the US. I don't necessarily mean meth - I think most people can agree on its illegality - but others where with the current level of knowledge we have on other substance (some particular soft-drugs) makes you wonder why on earth they would be illegal still. I've heard it suggested that cartels are doing what they can to keep these drugs illegal because the scarcity means $$ for them, high barriers to entry, etc. etc. hence the war on drugs ends up being something that, as you look at it, gets quite incoherant when you measure up the official line against what's actually done.

My midwife has done VBACs and she used to do births in Miss, but only Western. However, she's moved and I don't know where. PM me and I will give you the name of one of the midwives who still lives in the Bham area who may know someone to help you. You could also call "The Farm" in Summertown Tn. I'm sure you know of Ina May Gaskin there. Tell the switchboard lady that you would like the name of a midwife who would come help your wife birth. I'm sure they can help you. Also, get the book "Artemis Speaks" by Nan Kohler. She's a Cal midwife who specializes in VBAC at home and the book is great!

Hey, I live in a trailer park. If I really wanted some meth bad enough, I don't have to walk far to get info on a dealer. [Edit: For the record, I prefer to live in ignorance as far as that kind of thing is concerned]

I never have done hard drugs, though, and plan to keep it that way. But as miserable as I get, finding a meth dealer would almost be worth it for a Sudo fix. I understand one Sudo has a street value of $50. And no, I'm NOT selling my legit stash.

I agree on a lot of points here. It's friggin COLD MEDICINE for cryin' out loud!! ! I honestly have the sniffles and want to ward of a bacterial infection, which is easily done with a strong decongestant, a mucus thinner, and a NSAID. I start taking the hour I get a runny nose, go through about 6 sudos over 3 days, and I'm in the clear with the 3rd or 4th day being the worst after I withdraw the sudo. I won't even lose my voice. Compare that with phenylephrine where I'll be laid up with severe sinus infection for 2 weeks to a month. And somehow my health and well-being is not important enough to just go after the meth-heads? Look, if they're stupid enough to make meth out the trunk of their car or their trailer bathroom, let 'em blow themselves up. Let it be a matter for the coroner, not law enforcement.

I dunno...maybe meth should be legal. If people want to let their teeth rot out and gum their food for the rest of their lives, let 'em. A meth lab explosion means one less manufacturer, and one dead user means one less sell. Gimme my sudo and let me be productive and responsible.

Anyway...sorry for the rant. It just angers me.

Tech is exactly right about DXM. Heh...maybe we should make nutmeg illegal, too, and maybe we should toss everyone with morning glory growing in their yard in jail while we're at it. Salvia divinorum is a decorative plant that plenty of people have grown for decades and it really is under consideration as a scheduled substance.

You didn't mention "dime tripping." That's my personal fave (Dramamine, in case you're wondering). Really good on long car trips, and I can get a good extra hour if I start feeling car-sick. Down-side: EXTREME drowsiness. Great happy-pill until you fall asleep, trippy dreams for a while, but then just generally weird feeling after waking. I LOVE it when I get the stomach flu. If I'm in really bad shape, I like doxylamine. GOOD stuff. Downside: can't wake up after 12+ hours.

If you're gonna take my sudos, might as well take all the OTC hypnotiqs and "sleep aids," too. Better start clearing melatonin off the shelves, too. And nutmeg--don't forget nutmeg. Take with milk and dime (to counter nausea). Also good for inducing abortion.

There are all kinds of fun stuff you can get OTC. The biggest concern is that OTC drugs can likely turn your liver and kidneys to mush. I care just a little more about myself than that and never have OD'd on OTCs. It pisses me off that the drug dealers and meth heads can take something that does so much good and ruin it for everyone else who genuinely benefit from their use. And I worry that it's just a matter of time before they figure out ways to ruin it for other beneficial drugs as well. I stay away from Dramamine and Unisom unless I really, REALLY need them. It's just good to know they're there when I do need them.

Oh...thought about one more...

Corn, sugar, and yeast. Those are precursors to moonshine. Can't have that, can we? Grocery stores gotta start having people sign for it and show ID. Leave your physical address and a phone number, please.

Oh yeah. Like with DXM that I mentioned before, its not the substance itself that's dangerous in that respect but, the other things that might come with it. When people want to play the cold medicine high game acetaminophen (Tylenol really) is one of those things where if someone drinks a bottle of Nyquil or something with that in it, eats a whole bunch or the wrong Corcedins, or wants to lean on the lean (the purple drink) and that particular codein cough syrup happens to have acetaminophen - they're f'd.

That said enough of the drug users I used to know were guys who went online and did so much neurotransmitter research that they just about had more working knowledge than many doctors out there. You do find people who literally don't and never will have the smarts to hang with that but get wrapped up in the drug game - they don't have a prayer, even if its purified and technically liver-safe illegal drugs let alone these.



Heh, another fun difference - moonshine is perhaps worth someone's while if they want to make their own personal stash or try their hand at distilling, and there's nothing illegal about that in most places, but simultaneous - alcohol being legal - the profit margin or the payoff for the hassle just isn't enough to incentivize racketeering.

It's easier than making meth, though. And safer, provided your propane tanks don't freeze up. Startup costs are gonna be a few grand, but you'll make more than enough to cover it in your first run or two. It's hella cheaper than going legit, too--taxes, purchasing equipment required by regulation, etc. I'd advise against moonshining for personal use, though. To make a drinkable product, you have to throw away several gallons to minimize the amount of methanol that comes through, which means you have to make a HUGE batch for it to be safe. Nothing ruins a good drunk like waking up blind the next day.

There must be something else to it though. I've known people to do it at a personal level and make it work; mostly old generation from overseas. Then again the difference could be that they weren't going grain but rather fruit and other things like that.

AngelRho, I am not advocating taking Sudafed off the market. My point was that they talk about meth so much and have such long prison sentences for it and keep a database of who buys sudafed, etc and say that it's the number one problem in this country and claim to be fighting a war against it, so why don't they simply make it prescription? I'm wondering why they don't do that, if it's such a huge deal and they are doing so much about it, and it's ruining our country like they say, why don't they do that.

I'm talking about how all I hear is that it's the number one problem in the country. We should do something about it, etc they say. Well, I'm doing my part, I'm not cooking dope. But I'm tired of hearing them drone on and on about it, when they could cut it down an awful lot by simply making it prescription. They don't. They need to poop or get off the toilet.

They go on and on about how it's costing us all these tax dollars, but they don't do the one simple thing that would severely decrease the amount of it. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying we should take it off the market. I'm wondering why, since it's in their power to do that, they don't. Either it's not such a big problem, or they are getting something out of it being out there. Since I know that it is a big problem, I'd have to assume it's the latter. What that is, I don't know. That's what I want to know.

It's one of those things you have to make several gallons of it for it to be worth doing, even for personal use. Wine and beer, on the other hand, has so little of the bad alcohol that you don't even have to worry about it so much. It's only when you start cooking it and concentrating it that it's a problem. The bad stuff condenses before the good stuff, so as long as you discard the first 10-15% (I guess) it should be ok.

Beer is basically what you have before distilling, and there's too much water and gas for the bad alcohol to really have much of a negative effect. You couldn't physically hold enough beer/wine for that to happen. But I've read before that you can, say, freeze hard cider and skim the ice off the top to leave a more concentrated liquor. Like moonshine, you risk leaving too much of the bad stuff and going blind if you drink it.