11 Feb 2012, 1:22 am
Raptor wrote:
Yes I know American history.
I meant recent history with the expansionism thing. We haven’t done diddly as far as expansion but I’m sure you’ll find some way to disagree.
And we never had holdings on the scale that the British Empire did in its heyday. I can’t blame any nation for colonialism at a time when land was available, though. It’s a matter of staking claim to it or someone else will.
I meant recent history with the expansionism thing. We haven’t done diddly as far as expansion but I’m sure you’ll find some way to disagree.
And we never had holdings on the scale that the British Empire did in its heyday. I can’t blame any nation for colonialism at a time when land was available, though. It’s a matter of staking claim to it or someone else will.
America doesn't have the most powerful blue-water navy for nothing. These fleets are out there to ensure the security of American assets all over the world. These assets are often important economically (cliché, but oil for example). In the end it comes down to keeping business profitable. Its something every nation or city state (Carthage, the Republic of Venice, or classical Athens, for example) that is a maritime, commerce power ends up doing. America did grab a lot though; there was a time when many expected Cuba and The Philippines to become permanent parts of the US. There were a lot of US politicians against that sort of imperialism. There is a remarkable amount of old political articles and cartoons criticizing it
Raptor wrote:
You can blame the leadership (or lack of it) of Iraq and Afghanistan for their situation over the past decade. Or maybe blame that whole region for not keeping their house in order.
Canada has had a hand in taming the beast over there as well.
Canada has had a hand in taming the beast over there as well.
I have high hopes that our two country's efforts [plus our allies] in Afghanistan are successful. Iraq was a tough war and the debate about it will rage to eternal lamitude 70 years from now when the only people who care are geriatric old f***s with reflective space-tweed jackets or whatever the style will be... Unless things take a downturn permanently for the US and it becomes one of those national tragedies a people lament over for generations
Raptor wrote:
We don’t have much more than ourselves to practice hegemony over.
Well, like I said, a vast blue water navy is pretty evident of this sort of dominance
Raptor wrote:
Obviously I was joking about the annexation of Canada. 
We have enough of our own maple syrup to get by on.
And I believe I have a higher opinion of Canada than some Canadians I can think of seem to have of the United States.
We have enough of our own maple syrup to get by on.
And I believe I have a higher opinion of Canada than some Canadians I can think of seem to have of the United States.
I know, I know
You probably do. I have a pretty good opinion of America for the most part. American history is a favorite topic for me. Criticism does not have to equal hatred; if I criticize the US prison system, for example, its not an attack on America, it is an "attack" on some of the government's choices when it comes to incarceration.
11 Feb 2012, 2:05 am
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Yes I know American history.
I meant recent history with the expansionism thing. We haven’t done diddly as far as expansion but I’m sure you’ll find some way to disagree.
And we never had holdings on the scale that the British Empire did in its heyday. I can’t blame any nation for colonialism at a time when land was available, though. It’s a matter of staking claim to it or someone else will.
I meant recent history with the expansionism thing. We haven’t done diddly as far as expansion but I’m sure you’ll find some way to disagree.
And we never had holdings on the scale that the British Empire did in its heyday. I can’t blame any nation for colonialism at a time when land was available, though. It’s a matter of staking claim to it or someone else will.
America doesn't have the most powerful blue-water navy for nothing. These fleets are out there to ensure the security of American assets all over the world. These assets are often important economically (cliché, but oil for example). In the end it comes down to keeping business profitable. Its something every nation or city state (Carthage, the Republic of Venice, or classical Athens, for example) that is a maritime, commerce power ends up doing. America did grab a lot though; there was a time when many expected Cuba and The Philippines to become permanent parts of the US. There were a lot of US politicians against that sort of imperialism. There is a remarkable amount of old political articles and cartoons criticizing it
Raptor wrote:
You can blame the leadership (or lack of it) of Iraq and Afghanistan for their situation over the past decade. Or maybe blame that whole region for not keeping their house in order.
Canada has had a hand in taming the beast over there as well.
Canada has had a hand in taming the beast over there as well.
I have high hopes that our two country's efforts [plus our allies] in Afghanistan are successful. Iraq was a tough war and the debate about it will rage to eternal lamitude 70 years from now when the only people who care are geriatric old f***s with reflective space-tweed jackets or whatever the style will be... Unless things take a downturn permanently for the US and it becomes one of those national tragedies a people lament over for generations
Raptor wrote:
We don’t have much more than ourselves to practice hegemony over.
Well, like I said, a vast blue water navy is pretty evident of this sort of dominance
Raptor wrote:
Obviously I was joking about the annexation of Canada.
We have enough of our own maple syrup to get by on.
And I believe I have a higher opinion of Canada than some Canadians I can think of seem to have of the United States.
We have enough of our own maple syrup to get by on.
And I believe I have a higher opinion of Canada than some Canadians I can think of seem to have of the United States.
I know, I know
You probably do. I have a pretty good opinion of America for the most part. American history is a favorite topic for me. Criticism does not have to equal hatred; if I criticize the US prison system, for example, its not an attack on America, it is an "attack" on some of the government's choices when it comes to incarceration.
Having a global military presence is not the same as ruling everything we touch. We allow other countries (except for maybe a few here and there) to govern themselves so that kinda shoots down the hegemony accusation.
I think it was Al Capone that said “You get further with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone” or words to that effect. That’s why the big military.
11 Feb 2012, 2:51 am
11 Feb 2012, 2:59 am
11 Feb 2012, 3:04 am
11 Feb 2012, 3:26 am
11 Feb 2012, 10:55 am
Vigilans wrote:
Quote:
Hegemony =/= direct rule or even "rule" at all necessarily. Its is more a sphere of interest concept. In this case, the sphere in question happens to be the entire planet. Few countries have the backbone to actually go up against the United States. The Russian Federation is very similar in terms of strategy and reputation.
Okay, you’re right. We rule the globe with an iron fist. We are the embodiment of genocide and every night the pyres from the dead light up the skies around the world.
See what you’ve done; you’ve gotten me all excited………..again!
abacacus wrote:
Quote:
The funny thing is, the American sphere of influence is quite possibly on it's way down.
People hate bullies, and America is one of the global jackasses.
People hate bullies, and America is one of the global jackasses.
In case you missed it on the last page here it is again for your reading pleasure;
Raptor wrote:
"Ya know, now that you say it that way it actually it makes me feel kinda good to know that I'm a citizen of a nation that causes the citizens (or subjects) of other nations so much worry.
Thank you for showing things in this light. Now when y'all wring your hands over what we powerful and mean Americans are doing I won't get annoyed. Instead I'll be wearing a wolfish grin."
Vigilans wrote:
Quote:
Its changing in nature but I have a feeling that there will be an inevitable clash of steel between the US and the PR of China over who controls the global order. It will probably be the first war to involve space as a major battleground; as control of space is more valuable than the entire US navy. Indeed space planes or orbital weapons (non-nuclear) make aircraft carriers almost pointless.
abacacus wrote:
Quote:
That's a little ways off yet I think. An overt weaponization of space *could* bring the entire damn planet down on either country... the so called Rods From God (kinetic weapons) would be even more destructive (in the practical sense) than a nuke. If either country tried to implement such weapons, the other country would likely get a lot of support and get it very quickly from previously neutral nations... which could completely tip the balance of a third global war.
No... I think the fairly inevitable Chinese-American conflict will be fought on earth, just with unconventional means (cyber warfare, biological warfare, potentially nuclear). I also think that there is a decent chance the winner won't get the spoils, I think an armed conflict would deplete the winning nation to such an extent that a much less powerful nation could topple them.
No... I think the fairly inevitable Chinese-American conflict will be fought on earth, just with unconventional means (cyber warfare, biological warfare, potentially nuclear). I also think that there is a decent chance the winner won't get the spoils, I think an armed conflict would deplete the winning nation to such an extent that a much less powerful nation could topple them.
So be it……
11 Feb 2012, 11:59 am
