Why do people think Obama is a socialist?

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enrico_dandolo
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09 Mar 2012, 6:05 pm

Why do people use "socialism" as an insult in the US?

(Oh, and he's not. At most a social democrat.)

Jacoby wrote:

People don't know what corporatism is.

Indeed.

CrazyCatLord
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09 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:

Why do people use "socialism" as an insult in the US?

Because it's something that the French have.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKS0yISz6xQ[/youtube]

Kraichgauer
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09 Mar 2012, 6:54 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

enrico_dandolo wrote:

Why do people use "socialism" as an insult in the US?

Because it's something that the French have.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKS0yISz6xQ[/youtube]

I take back everything bad I ever said about the French! :lol:

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TM
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09 Mar 2012, 7:01 pm

By labeling a man who is to the right of most European right-center parties a socialist they move the political spectrum further to the right. I mean, wouldn't it make sense if the candidate to the left perhaps was a bit more forward on the traditional left issues as opposed to being to the right of Reagan? I mean during that socialist Eisenhower's reign of terror there was a 90% tax on the richest, the American economy still did pretty well.

I've dealt with real socialists and compared to them Obama is quite reasonable even though he's a bit too far to the right on some issues.

simon_says
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09 Mar 2012, 8:00 pm

These are the same people who said that Obama was under the sway of a radical black christian pastor and then switched to saying he's a secret Muslim immediately afterward. It has absolutely nothing to do with the accurate use of language as normal people understand it.

It's just hooting and chirping that happens to sound like English.

Kraichgauer
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09 Mar 2012, 8:03 pm

simon_says wrote:

With those people, it's more a matter of incoherent hate than anything about the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Vexcalibur
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09 Mar 2012, 8:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I damn well know Obama isn't a socialist... but I wish he was.

Do you? I mean, the European governments are actually center, and they are healthy places. But then you go to places that are truly lefty and they are all crap. I live in one and the true left wing government is really BS.

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Kraichgauer
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09 Mar 2012, 8:07 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I damn well know Obama isn't a socialist... but I wish he was.

Well, put me in a prosperous European country, then.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

blauSamstag
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09 Mar 2012, 10:06 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Its where he's been, who he's been with, and where he came from. Almost everything in his history would point in that direction (at least what isn't still sealed).

That said though was he anywhere near the ultimate effectiveness that many on the left were hoping for? No, in fact I get the impression that the left was even more irritated with him than the right because they were conned into voting for him and got almost nothing they wanted whereas the right still hated Obamacare, hated the big stimulus packages, hate the stalemate on cutting spending, knew what they'd be getting from him there already but they can still say he didn't turn Iraq and Afghanistan into two instant Vietnams on election, nor was he able to significantly hike taxes. In that sense he let 90% of leftist's expectation's down and was only 60% as bad as the conservatives thought he would be.

by what measure were Iraq and Afghanistan not Vietnams before he even entered the race?

In my infinite ignorance I'd argue that they weren't then and aren't now. Afghanistan's looking like it will be more of a headache to try and clean up or stabilize anymore than it is but things are pretty much the same and Obama, even if he might have traded numbers for strategy on the last troop surge, didn't pull out and let the whole thing unravel.

I'd argue that unless we're prepared to install an oppressive occupying force in both countries for the next 50 years or more, both of them will devolve into a mess roughly similar to what they were before we went in.

They are both vietnam in the sense that they are soverign nations that we have no business "liberating" - who's people will never be free as long as they live with our military force, and won't recognize freedom when they see it after we leave.

scubasteve
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09 Mar 2012, 10:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

With those people, it's more a matter of incoherent hate than anything about the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Like I said... It's because he's black. Can we stop dancing around the race issue? Or do you honestly believe they'd say all that about a white liberal president?

Kraichgauer
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09 Mar 2012, 10:31 pm

scubasteve wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

With those people, it's more a matter of incoherent hate than anything about the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Like I said... It's because he's black. Can we stop dancing around the race issue? Or do you honestly believe they'd say all that about a white liberal president?

Absolutely race is the primary motivation.
But you'll never get most of them to admit it out loud.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

shrox
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09 Mar 2012, 10:48 pm

auntblabby wrote:

... the old school yard taunt, "yer mother wears combat boots!"

After 40+ years, I think I get this one...does it mean your mom likes girls?

noname_ever
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09 Mar 2012, 11:02 pm

scubasteve wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

With those people, it's more a matter of incoherent hate than anything about the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Like I said... It's because he's black. Can we stop dancing around the race issue? Or do you honestly believe they'd say all that about a white liberal president?

It was implied about the clintons, especially Hillary.

AstroGeek
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09 Mar 2012, 11:04 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I damn well know Obama isn't a socialist... but I wish he was.

Where do you mean? Just a region would be fine if you want to keep your location secret. There have been very few truly left-wing governments in the world. I don't count the left-wing Communist dictatorships because the whole point of socialism is democratic control of the economy, and you obviously can't have that if your country isn't democratic.

Kraichgauer
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09 Mar 2012, 11:12 pm

noname_ever wrote:

scubasteve wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

simon_says wrote:

With those people, it's more a matter of incoherent hate than anything about the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Like I said... It's because he's black. Can we stop dancing around the race issue? Or do you honestly believe they'd say all that about a white liberal president?

It was implied about the clintons, especially Hillary.

Goes to show you that the right is full of misogynists as well as racists. They were the same ones who were whispering blatant lies about her sexuality, too.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

techstepgenr8tion
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09 Mar 2012, 11:17 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

With Afghanistan we were kind of backed into the wall with 9/11, and with our memories of how we bungled the situation with the Mujaheddin vs. Russia I don't think we wanted to walk out the same way. Iraq's a story that'll likely be debatable for the next twenty or thirty years - did we know that he had/didn't have WMD's? Did something get fabricated and forced through Colin Powell? Did Saddam pass off and bury his stuff in Syria? Lots of big mysteries, then again going forward we have a better shot of stabilizing that than Afghanistan.

Really I'm not sure what we can do, "Pull out - its easy" isn't the answer. perhaps ramp down and keep training their public police and military to have some type of well-formed layer of civil servants as well as institutions to anchor the hillside in so to speak but aside from getting them on their own feet we've got nothing. S Korea though is another example of where, technically, we never left.

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