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Free Sterilizations Must be Offered to All College Women(HHS

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Deinonychus
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12 Apr 2012, 4:53 pm

webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!


How is it genocide if:
a. No person is conceived to be killed in the first place.
b. it's totally voluntary?


The literal and etymological meaning of the word genocide is "to cut within the category." So if a college student can no longer have kids an entire category has been destroyed. It's genocide. Is it really voluntary if we teach people that it's right? If they are never taught how much of an insult it is to have one's reproductive capacity taken from them, is that not both conspiracy and coercion? Do you like those things? I imagine that being a woman it has been forced down your throat from the time you were a kid that it would be ok to not have kids and to be free to be a woman with no responsibility for children. Sometime the people closest to you can talk you into and teach you to accept horrible things, and sometimes, esp. when there is mass media, a whole society can do it. Your social isolation has kept you from living a full life. People have devalued women as people and you as a woman accept it and so many more don't even realize how bad that is because our culture promotes otherwise. Who will look upon you in the future, who will you have to pass on your life's work to? What does it mean that your genetics have been taken out of the gene pool? What does it mean to you? Have you thought about it?


It sounds like you think you are better-equipped to make decisions about puddingmouse's health and life than puddingmouse is. This is interesting.



MarketAndChurch
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12 Apr 2012, 4:55 pm

Please sterilize yourself sooner. You don't reproduce at replacement rates anyways, so your ideas will follow you to the grave, and the evangelicals and catholic hispanics will inherit this country.


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12 Apr 2012, 4:55 pm

webcam wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Ellendra wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Is anyone forcing anyone else to be sterilized?

ruveyn



Give it time. Human nature is very consistant in that regard.


In what countries? There is no forced sterilization in the advanced industrial countries.

ruveyn



Well, there certainly was forced sterilization here in the US through the 1960s. Things like this are but a gateway to reinstating it.



Please do tell me, oh mr libertarian, just exactly WHY the state should pay for an expensive surgical operation that is completely unnecessary for the life and health of Most women. Not only must sterilization remain voluntary, it must be a service provided by a private entity for a monetary fee.


We did forced sterilizations? Why? To who? I really hope my great grand parents didn't have anything to do with this... I wouldn't want to bear the shame. If only people lived long enough to care about what the future would think. If only they had to live with their decisions forever.


Native Americans for one group. This new 2012 healthcare coverage does not involve forced sterilization in any way however.



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12 Apr 2012, 4:56 pm

webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!


How is it genocide if:
a. No person is conceived to be killed in the first place.
b. it's totally voluntary?


The literal and etymological meaning of the word genocide is "to cut within the category." So if a college student can no longer have kids an entire category has been destroyed. It's genocide. Is it really voluntary if we teach people that it's right? If they are never taught how much of an insult it is to have one's reproductive capacity taken from them, is that not both conspiracy and coercion? Do you like those things? I imagine that being a woman it has been forced down your throat from the time you were a kid that it would be ok to not have kids and to be free to be a woman with no responsibility for children. Sometime the people closest to you can talk you into and teach you to accept horrible things, and sometimes, esp. when there is mass media, a whole society can do it. Your social isolation has kept you from living a full life. People have devalued women as people and you as a woman accept it and so many more don't even realize how bad that is because our culture promotes otherwise. Who will look upon you in the future, who will you have to pass on your life's work to? What does it mean that your genetics have been taken out of the gene pool? What does it mean to you? Have you thought about it?


I don't want kids. I have had some reassurance that I am free, as a human being, to not have them. I've also had to put with a lot of lectures about how women should have children from the likes of you. Whatever the cultural reinforcement is, people are still individuals and reproduction is a highly personal matter to them.

If I could draw a sub-atomic particle, that would illustrate how much I care about my genetic material continuing on this earth. I genuinely would rather it not continue. The more I think about it, the less I want children.


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MarketAndChurch
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12 Apr 2012, 4:59 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Ellendra wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Is anyone forcing anyone else to be sterilized?

ruveyn



Give it time. Human nature is very consistant in that regard.


In what countries? There is no forced sterilization in the advanced industrial countries.

ruveyn



Well, there certainly was forced sterilization here in the US through the 1960s. Things like this are but a gateway to reinstating it.



Please do tell me, oh mr libertarian, just exactly WHY the state should pay for an expensive surgical operation that is completely unnecessary for the life and health of Most women. Not only must sterilization remain voluntary, it must be a service provided by a private entity for a monetary fee.


We led the world in forced sterilizations through the turn of the century. It was a progressive dream pushed everywhere for a new man, by limiting the unwanted possibilities. The new man would be taller, smarter, faster, more creative, and armed with this, would remake a better world.


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AspieRogue

12 Apr 2012, 5:02 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Ellendra wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Is anyone forcing anyone else to be sterilized?

ruveyn



Give it time. Human nature is very consistant in that regard.


In what countries? There is no forced sterilization in the advanced industrial countries.

ruveyn



Well, there certainly was forced sterilization here in the US through the 1960s. Things like this are but a gateway to reinstating it.



Please do tell me, oh mr libertarian, just exactly WHY the state should pay for an expensive surgical operation that is completely unnecessary for the life and health of Most women. Not only must sterilization remain voluntary, it must be a service provided by a private entity for a monetary fee.


We led the world in forced sterilizations through the turn of the century. It was a progressive dream pushed everywhere for a new man, by limiting the unwanted possibilities. The new man would be taller, smarter, faster, more creative, and armed with this, would remake a better world.




Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.



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12 Apr 2012, 5:26 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.


I'm stupid, then.

I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.

I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.


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12 Apr 2012, 5:32 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!


How is it genocide if:
a. No person is conceived to be killed in the first place.
b. it's totally voluntary?


The literal and etymological meaning of the word genocide is "to cut within the category." So if a college student can no longer have kids an entire category has been destroyed. It's genocide. Is it really voluntary if we teach people that it's right? If they are never taught how much of an insult it is to have one's reproductive capacity taken from them, is that not both conspiracy and coercion? Do you like those things? I imagine that being a woman it has been forced down your throat from the time you were a kid that it would be ok to not have kids and to be free to be a woman with no responsibility for children. Sometime the people closest to you can talk you into and teach you to accept horrible things, and sometimes, esp. when there is mass media, a whole society can do it. Your social isolation has kept you from living a full life. People have devalued women as people and you as a woman accept it and so many more don't even realize how bad that is because our culture promotes otherwise. Who will look upon you in the future, who will you have to pass on your life's work to? What does it mean that your genetics have been taken out of the gene pool? What does it mean to you? Have you thought about it?


I don't want kids. I have had some reassurance that I am free, as a human being, to not have them. I've also had to put with a lot of lectures about how women should have children from the likes of you. Whatever the cultural reinforcement is, people are still individuals and reproduction is a highly personal matter to them.

If I could draw a sub-atomic particle, that would illustrate how much I care about my genetic material continuing on this earth. I genuinely would rather it not continue. The more I think about it, the less I want children.


Is sounds like you've given up on the world. But this again is something you have been taught or at least learned. It's sad to have seen this happen in my own lifetime and I'm sorry it has happened to you. Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids. We are on the edge of solving all of our problems. We don't need to do this.



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12 Apr 2012, 5:37 pm

webcam wrote:
Gene therapy is on its way, and there really is no reason not to have kids.


Besides not wanting them? I can think of many reasons to not have kids, but not wanting them is the ultimate reason.


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12 Apr 2012, 5:48 pm

I consider this a social advancement, but unfortunately, politics is probably going to mess it up.


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12 Apr 2012, 5:55 pm

webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!


That makes about as much sense as saying wearing a condom is murder. After all, you are wilfully preventing yourself from having a child... must be murder according to you! You probably think I should go to jail for murder (and eventually genocide, I intend to get a vasectomy).


Your opinion does not make fact, you are wrong in this case.


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12 Apr 2012, 6:02 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.


I'm stupid, then.

I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.

I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.


even if we stopped all abortions in America, and instead put them up for adoption, it would take decades to give every child-less home with parents who can't have children 1 child.

Abortion has definitely allowed for crime to fall, but it isn't true that these children are unwanted. They are just unwanted by the women giving birth, but instead of just disposing of a developing human being, why not let it fully develop and give it away to a child-less home?


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12 Apr 2012, 6:05 pm

abacacus wrote:
webcam wrote:
It should be illegal to have a sterilization... It's genocide... they aren't even giving these kids the chance to breed and continue their lineage... it's f***ing ridiculous... Time for an overthrow of Government... Can we really put up with this? College is too early to be making those decisions and they should never be made in any case... It simply can't be justified. It is the exact opposite of Justice. It's coercive genocide. This sh** needs to stop... Being human used to be an honorable thing... now it's genocidal... I almost don't want to count myself among humans if they are going to do sh** like this!


That makes about as much sense as saying wearing a condom is murder. After all, you are wilfully preventing yourself from having a child... must be murder according to you! You probably think I should go to jail for murder (and eventually genocide, I intend to get a vasectomy).


Your opinion does not make fact, you are wrong in this case.


The sperm is not a developing human being. Conception is the beginning of the process, so just think of it as disposing DNA. Murder is unjust killing. There is no killing here to begin with.


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12 Apr 2012, 6:09 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.


I'm stupid, then.

I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.

I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.


even if we stopped all abortions in America, and instead put them up for adoption, it would take decades to give every child-less home with parents who can't have children 1 child.

Abortion has definitely allowed for crime to fall, but it isn't true that these children are unwanted. They are just unwanted by the women giving birth, but instead of just disposing of a developing human being, why not let it fully develop and give it away to a child-less home?


I take it this is an offer on your part to host a fetus in your body for nine months?



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12 Apr 2012, 6:30 pm

CloudLayer wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Yes I'm aware. And it's naive to the point of stupidity to think that giving the state the authority and the funds to provide this service for free will not ultimately lead to it becoming compulsory once again.


I'm stupid, then.

I think this is just a case of the state trying to save money by not having so many unwanted children in the world.

I guess I don't think that way because my country never practised compulsory sterilisation. I think it's more likely to happen again in the US.


even if we stopped all abortions in America, and instead put them up for adoption, it would take decades to give every child-less home with parents who can't have children 1 child.

Abortion has definitely allowed for crime to fall, but it isn't true that these children are unwanted. They are just unwanted by the women giving birth, but instead of just disposing of a developing human being, why not let it fully develop and give it away to a child-less home?


I take it this is an offer on your part to host a fetus in your body for nine months?


The world would not work if everyone only did what worked for them. If I were a women, and this issue came up, and for whatever reason, be it the worse employment luck in the world or a very bad situation I could not escape, I would carry the child and give it up for adoption. And there are many women who believe as I do, that life begins at conception, and that we are all accountable to God, and do carry their pregnancy and if necessary, offer it up for adoption. This isn't a man versus women issue since 40% of Democrats are pro-life, and at least 60% of Republicans are. There's a lot of women who take my position, and you might think their stupid or that they are anti-women but you can't say that only men believe this.

If you do not value this, then you do not, and if it inconveniences you to carry a human life till birth and keeps you from enjoying your career, private life, or hobby, then fine. But at least we understand the differences.


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12 Apr 2012, 6:50 pm

Sterilizing the intelligent women is a great way to assure a population or morons.

ruveyn