Don't you think Ted Haggard was stupid

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Even if one can't choose their sexual orientation, they can still refrain from sexual desires at will. Straight people too have to refrain from some sexual desires, such as prostitution. I guess the way it might come across as unfair is that gays have to suppress their sexuality altogether while straight people are only asked to suppress parts of it. But the whole thing evens up if you consider straight ppl who are involunterily single. They too have to suppress ALL of their sexuality by refraining to go to prostitutes.

There's a huge difference between prostitution and a monogamous consentual homosexual relationship. Why should gays have to refrain from something that's considered normal for straight people - monogamous consentual relationships with people they love? And don't just say "because the Bible says so". I want a logical and thoughtful answer.

And no, it doesn't even up. You're ignoring the fact that, in your fantasy world, most straight people would be in relationships with people they love and only a few would be single while all gay people would either be in relationships with people they have no sexual desire for or they would just be single.

The plight of gays is similar to the plight of Aspies - neither group is doing anything wrong and neither group is harming anyone through their actions. We're just doing things differently. And most NTs and most religious straight people are just too immature to accept the fact that alternative lifestyles are perfectly fine.

Last edited by Dart on 07 Nov 2006, 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

yeah well that christian lead alot of people the wrongway. wich most of christianity does. so the next time you want to look down on me dont. because your full of s**t.

I can ask similar question about prostutution. First of all can you tell me LOGICALLY why is polygamy wrong? In fact there are some cultures where polygamy is okay, so you are being "racist" saying that. Secondly, what is wrong with paying for sex, after all there is nothing wrong with paying for other kinds of jobs.

BOTTOM LINE: moral values are not about logic but about God's will. The ONLY answer why ANYTHING is wrong is the Bible. And that very bible preaches against homosexuality. So homosexuality isn't any less wrong than monogamy or prostitution.

Also straight ppl should refrain from sex before marriage, so that would boost their number.



First of all, I am talking about sin, not a sinner. This being said, I can't pin point anything particular an aspi would do that would be in violation in any of the commandments, which NT won't be doing. On the other hand, in case of gay, yes I can pin point it.

and men have interpedted them well, congratulations.

Last edited by richardbenson on 07 Nov 2006, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Polygamy makes a husband have to divide attention between multiple wives, harming his relationship with each. It leads to unstable relationships. Monogamous consentual homosexual relationships, on the other hand, are not like that. And as for prostitution, I personally think it should be legal, but I do not approve of it because it is loveless sex. Homosexual relationships, on the other hand, have both love and sex.

As for the Bible's morality, the Bible is based on primitive values. The Bible tolerates slavery and is also somewhat sexist against women. Do you agree with those views? Also, what makes you believe in the Bible? What makes you believe that a god who cares about our morality is plausible?

*rolls eyes*

It's no use debating with Bible thumpers because you refuse to think for yourselves and you refuse to think things through rationally. You just accept everything the Bible says as fact even when it's completely ridiculous.

Jesus said the kingdom is WITHIN YOU. Therefore, being or not being Christian is between a person and God. This being said, a person can lie to OTHER PEOPLE but they can't lie to themselves. So this pretty much removes the whole hypocricy thing. And as far as having a position as a pastor, or anything like that, no one said that makes a person saved.

Do you have an answer for Dart's question? Just wondering.



Polygamy is okay, according to the Bible. So is slavery and wife-beating. While I have no particular problem with the idea of polygamy, I do have serious reservations about slavery and wife-beating. And I seriously have to wonder about a moral code that condones them. Just my $0.02.

thank you ive been waiting for this reply all f*****g night. only god knows, and not men.

Roman, here are some quotes of yours from another topic here.

Homosexual relationships offer emotional connections for homosexuals, moreso than they would feel if they were forced to pretend to be heterosexual. Unless you want to condemn them to being single their whole lives, which is a very cruel thing to do. Why would a "loving God" do something like that?


And, in theory, shouldn't women in lesbian relationships be less sexist against themselves? After all, a woman in a lesbian relationship doesn't need a man to protect her.

In the polygamous societies they have a structure as to when man should spend time with which wife. Structure always helps. Case in point: when there were arranged marriages, the couples ended up getting alone, but right now if you take a couple of random ppl who have no attraction towards each other, it won't work out. So the same way, if you have polygamy within a context of today's society, no it won't work out. But within framework of other societies, yes it will. The ONLY reason why our society is "better" in this respect is really a Bible. But again it is hard to realize it since every single thing parents taught us (such as putting our clothes on) ultimately goes back to the bible, so you don't remember thinking outside of its context.




Well, I read somewhere that statistics shows that gay people last much shorter than straight people do -- I read that they typically only last a year or two. This is also why AIDS is more common among gays -- since they don't last, they are the most polygamous ones.



Well how about arranged marriages, that is also loveless sex. And also why is having loveless sex any more wrong than to be payed for other kinds of service?



Prostitution, too, has love on ONE side. So if two-sided love is enough to be "bending backwards", why not do it for one-sided love such as prostitution. Well, you can say that the prostitution isn't love but lust, but still where do you draw a line? Thats why you need a bible, because it tells you where the line is.



Bible is based on primitive values because it had primitive audience. So at the time when the deal was "kill or get killed", the bible had to have some instructions on how to deal with it. You should also remember that ISRAELITES were the only ones who were allowed to do it, and what gave them this right was authority of priests and temple. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, so no one has such authority any more.

Also the whole deal about slaves obeying masters is that you shouldn't be doing any major revolutions. The colorary to this is that right now it woulud be WRONG to have slaves since we are all born free on the first place.



The fact that end time prophecies are being fulfilled makes me believe in Bible.

This is probably at least partly because of the fact that gay couples aren't accepted by society, the fact that gay people might be insecure because they aren't accepted by society (insecurity is never good for relationships), and the fact that they might see no point in continuing a relationship if they can never get married or have kids.

There are plenty of long-term gay relationships out there though. Don't think they don't exist.

Also, remember that the length of straight relationships is rapidly declining.


Being a non-judgmental person, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with either. They're just not my personal preferences and I think they have the potential to harm society. Homosexuality isn't my personal preference either, but I don't think that harms anyone at all.


So, I guess, if you were to follow the Bible very strictly, the United States wouldn't even exist as an independent country (if no major revolutions are allowed) or if it did we would still have slaves.


Details and irrefutable evidence please.

I never said that homosexuals should pretend to be heterosexuals. I said they should smiply refrain from sex.



Because "loving God" never said that sex is a must. In factit is better to be single on the first place:

Matt 19: 11
He answered, "Not all can accept [this] word, 8 but only those to whom that is granted.
Matt 19: 12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage 9 for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Also read this:

1 Cor 7:1 Now in regard to the matters about which you wrote: "It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman,"

1 Cor 7:2
but because of cases of immorality every man should have his own wife, and every woman her own husband.


BOTTOM LINE: It is BETTER for EVERYONE to be single. But if it is too hard for you, go ahead and mary, it isn't a sin. Now within this mindset that it is BETTER to be single on the first place, I don't see it as disservice towards gays if they are forced to be such.



I wasn't talking about how I believe things should be, I was strictly analysing WOMAN"S mindset. So I was assuming that I am talking about NON-CHRISTIAN women, and was trying to analyse their logic within that framework. So the fact that, being a Christian, I don't believe in lesbian relationships to start with, is irrelevent.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

If it's better for everyone to be single, don't just discriminate against homosexuals. Condemn others too.

And by the way, shouldn't homosexuals be the ones who decide if it's a disservice? Or is free will a concept that you don't like?

There's a good chance that I will be single all my life because of my social ineptitude, and I would never wish that upon anyone else.