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My question for atheists.

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Joker
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18 May 2012, 7:53 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
In response to your question about why people see the need to question a belief in god for me it is quite simple. If the religious fraternity kept out of the lives of the non believers I would not offer any advice on why I think they are wrong, unfortunately this is not the case, believers in god try at every turn to subject all to their beliefs for example; the opposition to embryonic stem cell research, abortions,homosexuality whilst not exclusively mounted by religious groups they are the overwhelming majority of the descenting argument and have had an effect disproportionate to their numbers, then we have the attack on science mounted exclusively by the religious nuts who seek to overturn the teaching of evolution in schools. this is just the tip of the ice berg and dont forget that my lack of belief would see me killed in some countries.

So you guys as a group back out of my life and I will stop trying to make you think critically about what you believe.


Me and you and many people that are religious but are anit-religious right deisre the same thing. I have formed a group at my church trying to keep faith out of government basically my questioin should have been if we stay out of politics would the attacks against are faith stop? Or would it not matter and the atheists will still attack us any way.



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18 May 2012, 8:16 pm

Joker wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
In response to your question about why people see the need to question a belief in god for me it is quite simple. If the religious fraternity kept out of the lives of the non believers I would not offer any advice on why I think they are wrong, unfortunately this is not the case, believers in god try at every turn to subject all to their beliefs for example; the opposition to embryonic stem cell research, abortions,homosexuality whilst not exclusively mounted by religious groups they are the overwhelming majority of the descenting argument and have had an effect disproportionate to their numbers, then we have the attack on science mounted exclusively by the religious nuts who seek to overturn the teaching of evolution in schools. this is just the tip of the ice berg and dont forget that my lack of belief would see me killed in some countries.

So you guys as a group back out of my life and I will stop trying to make you think critically about what you believe.


Me and you and many people that are religious but are anit-religious right deisre the same thing. I have formed a group at my church trying to keep faith out of government basically my questioin should have been if we stay out of politics would the attacks against are faith stop? Or would it not matter and the atheists will still attack us any way.


Not just out of government, your religion should be like masturbating, something you do in your own house, never tell anyone about and if you do it in public, you should be locked up in a looney bin.



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18 May 2012, 8:20 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
In response to your question about why people see the need to question a belief in god for me it is quite simple. If the religious fraternity kept out of the lives of the non believers I would not offer any advice on why I think they are wrong, unfortunately this is not the case, believers in god try at every turn to subject all to their beliefs for example; the opposition to embryonic stem cell research, abortions,homosexuality whilst not exclusively mounted by religious groups they are the overwhelming majority of the descenting argument and have had an effect disproportionate to their numbers, then we have the attack on science mounted exclusively by the religious nuts who seek to overturn the teaching of evolution in schools. this is just the tip of the ice berg and dont forget that my lack of belief would see me killed in some countries.

So you guys as a group back out of my life and I will stop trying to make you think critically about what you believe.


Me and you and many people that are religious but are anit-religious right deisre the same thing. I have formed a group at my church trying to keep faith out of government basically my questioin should have been if we stay out of politics would the attacks against are faith stop? Or would it not matter and the atheists will still attack us any way.


Not just out of government, your religion should be like masturbating, something you do in your own house, never tell anyone about and if you do it in public, you should be locked up in a looney bin.


But I thought the main problem with religion that atheists has is its role in Government and btw atheism should be treated the same way.



TM
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18 May 2012, 8:30 pm

Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
In response to your question about why people see the need to question a belief in god for me it is quite simple. If the religious fraternity kept out of the lives of the non believers I would not offer any advice on why I think they are wrong, unfortunately this is not the case, believers in god try at every turn to subject all to their beliefs for example; the opposition to embryonic stem cell research, abortions,homosexuality whilst not exclusively mounted by religious groups they are the overwhelming majority of the descenting argument and have had an effect disproportionate to their numbers, then we have the attack on science mounted exclusively by the religious nuts who seek to overturn the teaching of evolution in schools. this is just the tip of the ice berg and dont forget that my lack of belief would see me killed in some countries.

So you guys as a group back out of my life and I will stop trying to make you think critically about what you believe.


Me and you and many people that are religious but are anit-religious right deisre the same thing. I have formed a group at my church trying to keep faith out of government basically my questioin should have been if we stay out of politics would the attacks against are faith stop? Or would it not matter and the atheists will still attack us any way.


Not just out of government, your religion should be like masturbating, something you do in your own house, never tell anyone about and if you do it in public, you should be locked up in a looney bin.


But I thought the main problem with religion that atheists has is its role in Government and btw atheism should be treated the same way.


Why? Atheism has no set of beliefs, no doctrine, or anything all atheism is, is a lack of belief in supernatural deities. My atheism in no way impacts my life or opinions in any matter except in those relating to religion. Furthermore, my atheism does not require me to belief in fairytales and invisible friends.

My morals are based on philosophy, my opinions on science on my education in science, my economic beliefs in my education and so on. You don't get to put your lack of reason on the shelf with my reason, your lack of reason needs to go on the shelf with Amon-ra, Thor, Odin and Bathomet.

If there was no religion, there would be no atheism.



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18 May 2012, 8:37 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
In response to your question about why people see the need to question a belief in god for me it is quite simple. If the religious fraternity kept out of the lives of the non believers I would not offer any advice on why I think they are wrong, unfortunately this is not the case, believers in god try at every turn to subject all to their beliefs for example; the opposition to embryonic stem cell research, abortions,homosexuality whilst not exclusively mounted by religious groups they are the overwhelming majority of the descenting argument and have had an effect disproportionate to their numbers, then we have the attack on science mounted exclusively by the religious nuts who seek to overturn the teaching of evolution in schools. this is just the tip of the ice berg and dont forget that my lack of belief would see me killed in some countries.

So you guys as a group back out of my life and I will stop trying to make you think critically about what you believe.


Me and you and many people that are religious but are anit-religious right deisre the same thing. I have formed a group at my church trying to keep faith out of government basically my questioin should have been if we stay out of politics would the attacks against are faith stop? Or would it not matter and the atheists will still attack us any way.


Not just out of government, your religion should be like masturbating, something you do in your own house, never tell anyone about and if you do it in public, you should be locked up in a looney bin.


But I thought the main problem with religion that atheists has is its role in Government and btw atheism should be treated the same way.


Why? Atheism has no set of beliefs, no doctrine, or anything all atheism is, is a lack of belief in supernatural deities. My atheism in no way impacts my life or opinions in any matter except in those relating to religion. Furthermore, my atheism does not require me to belief in fairytales and invisible friends.

My morals are based on philosophy, my opinions on science on my education in science, my economic beliefs in my education and so on. You don't get to put your lack of reason on the shelf with my reason, your lack of reason needs to go on the shelf with Amon-ra, Thor, Odin and Bathomet.

If there was no religion, there would be no atheism.


I agree with the last part but atheism is a belief it is a belief in no God to say it is not a belief is a lie.



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18 May 2012, 8:45 pm

Joker wrote:

I agree with the last part but atheism is a belief it is a belief in no God to say it is not a belief is a lie.


So not believing in something is a belief now? Seems a bit oxymoronic to me. I don't believe in any supernatural creatures, the tooth fairy, count Dracula, Santa Claus or Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have a lack of any supernatural belief, and that in and on its own means that my atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of all belief.



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18 May 2012, 8:51 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

I agree with the last part but atheism is a belief it is a belief in no God to say it is not a belief is a lie.


So not believing in something is a belief now? Seems a bit oxymoronic to me. I don't believe in any supernatural creatures, the tooth fairy, count Dracula, Santa Claus or Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have a lack of any supernatural belief, and that in and on its own means that my atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of all belief.


You spend hours arguing that atheism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god", as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.



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18 May 2012, 8:53 pm

Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

I agree with the last part but atheism is a belief it is a belief in no God to say it is not a belief is a lie.


So not believing in something is a belief now? Seems a bit oxymoronic to me. I don't believe in any supernatural creatures, the tooth fairy, count Dracula, Santa Claus or Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have a lack of any supernatural belief, and that in and on its own means that my atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of all belief.


You spend hours arguing that atheism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god", as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.


That's because it is. If you get away with defining atheism as a belief, then you use the same definition of belief as you would use for your religion, which means you then argue that my belief (which isn't a belief) is the equivalent of your actual belief (which is a lack of connection with reality).



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18 May 2012, 9:07 pm

I don't think that the attacks would end. What is going on is a cultural conflict. Not every part of the discussion is political, but rather a lot of it has to do with the perceived folly and harm of religious belief.

So, if Catholicism is seen as causing women harm or seen as putting down gays, it's going to be attacked for that. I mean, the simple issue is that ridiculous beliefs are very likely to be attacked.

If every religion moved towards some post-everything liberal faith, where science and religion were in harmony, where religion didn't play a hurtful role, and where the most justifiable forms of religion with the least conflict with other popular beliefs existed, then.... there would probably be very minimal fighting. Atheists usually pick their fights with fundamentalists and with religious conservatives. They dislike more liberal beliefs, but they usually don't find solid ground to make a huge fight out of it.

In all likelihood, issues will persist, and that's because fights ALWAYS persist when disagreements persist, and the larger and more substantial the disagreement, the larger and more substantial the fight. That's just human nature. If two people disagree, one will insist they are right, and push the other one to change their mind.



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18 May 2012, 9:14 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

I agree with the last part but atheism is a belief it is a belief in no God to say it is not a belief is a lie.


So not believing in something is a belief now? Seems a bit oxymoronic to me. I don't believe in any supernatural creatures, the tooth fairy, count Dracula, Santa Claus or Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have a lack of any supernatural belief, and that in and on its own means that my atheism isn't a belief, its a lack of all belief.


You spend hours arguing that atheism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god", as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.


That's because it is. If you get away with defining atheism as a belief, then you use the same definition of belief as you would use for your religion, which means you then argue that my belief (which isn't a belief) is the equivalent of your actual belief (which is a lack of connection with reality).


You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist. You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded". Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.



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18 May 2012, 9:18 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I don't think that the attacks would end. What is going on is a cultural conflict. Not every part of the discussion is political, but rather a lot of it has to do with the perceived folly and harm of religious belief.

So, if Catholicism is seen as causing women harm or seen as putting down gays, it's going to be attacked for that. I mean, the simple issue is that ridiculous beliefs are very likely to be attacked.

If every religion moved towards some post-everything liberal faith, where science and religion were in harmony, where religion didn't play a hurtful role, and where the most justifiable forms of religion with the least conflict with other popular beliefs existed, then.... there would probably be very minimal fighting. Atheists usually pick their fights with fundamentalists and with religious conservatives. They dislike more liberal beliefs, but they usually don't find solid ground to make a huge fight out of it.

In all likelihood, issues will persist, and that's because fights ALWAYS persist when disagreements persist, and the larger and more substantial the disagreement, the larger and more substantial the fight. That's just human nature. If two people disagree, one will insist they are right, and push the other one to change their mind.


You know I was not expecting such a well thought response yes when religion became less liberal and more to the right that became a problem I am not a liberal christian but I can say that science and my faith are at harmony with one anothers I use both. Also it seems me and atheists have the same problem I dislike fundamentalists and religious conservatives because they make all christians or jews muslims look bad.



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18 May 2012, 9:31 pm

Joker wrote:

You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist. You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded". Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.


I suggest that you go back and actually read what I've posted about my lack of belief and rather than telling me what I believe. How can I put this, if something cannot be measured, touched, seen, heard or implied to exist based on objective observation, it is irrational to think that it exists.

Furthermore, if you take the qualities attributed to various deities by scripture, their existence becomes impossible as the world is very different from how it would be if it was created by a being consistent with those characteristics.

I don't think Christians or other religious people are narrow minded, I think they need heavy doses of anti-psychotics and treatment.



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18 May 2012, 9:35 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist. You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded". Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.


I suggest that you go back and actually read what I've posted about my lack of belief and rather than telling me what I believe. How can I put this, if something cannot be measured, touched, seen, heard or implied to exist based on objective observation, it is irrational to think that it exists.

Furthermore, if you take the qualities attributed to various deities by scripture, their existence becomes impossible as the world is very different from how it would be if it was created by a being consistent with those characteristics.

I don't think Christians or other religious people are narrow minded, I think they need heavy doses of anti-psychotics and treatment.


That is a very egotist post TM you can not measure or touch death but it is their and does exist and is unseen.



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18 May 2012, 9:42 pm

Joker wrote:

That is a very egotist post TM you can not measure or touch death but it is their and does exist and is unseen.


You can measure death, heart-rate, blood pressure, neural activity. You can touch it in much the same manner, I believe it was Ted Bundy who said that when you strangle someone with your bare hands you can feel their death as they drift away.

I always found your "reply-frequency" interesting, especially to my more lengthy and complex posts, because there is no way you could read them, digest what I wrote and think about it in the time it takes you to post a reply, and it shows.



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18 May 2012, 9:48 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:

That is a very egotist post TM you can not measure or touch death but it is their and does exist and is unseen.


You can measure death, heart-rate, blood pressure, neural activity. You can touch it in much the same manner, I believe it was Ted Bundy who said that when you strangle someone with your bare hands you can feel their death as they drift away.

I always found your "reply-frequency" interesting, especially to my more lengthy and complex posts, because there is no way you could read them, digest what I wrote and think about it in the time it takes you to post a reply, and it shows.
'

I did read your post but didn't really think if I gave a good reply that it would mean anything to you seeing how you claim to be so much snmarter then nme. And no you can not messaure death but then again if Ted Bundy says you can it must be true :lol: And TM 4.Always say less than necessary.



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18 May 2012, 11:08 pm

Do you understand what death is?
Edit: I may just be misunderstanding, what do you mean when you say death?



Last edited by meems on 18 May 2012, 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.