My Beef with "Social Responsibility"

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Sweetleaf
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23 May 2012, 11:29 am

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Until you need its help.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

He who takes government help has robbed his neighbor.

The government has made criminals of all of us.

Is that a good thing?

All you can say is it is better to accept help from the devil than perish immediately.

Bad alternatives. But we have not figured out a better way.

ruveyn

How is collective responsibility and collective compassion robbery? We all pool our resources with government for the greater good. I doubt any of the founding fathers would have disagreed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Bill, you are too intelligent for this sh*t. Money taken by force or threat of force is stolen money. Taxation is theft. You know the difference between voluntarily and involuntarily.

Voluntary charity is just great. I believe in it sincerely and I even give a bit of my money and my time.

But collective use of money? No such thing. Money is owned individually. It is not owned collectively.

ruveyn

Then take it up with the government not the people who rely on such programs for help, though I don't know that let them die as you've suggested before would be taken seriously as a policy. Thing is if there is not adequate charity or help from family, and the government provides programs to help obviously people are going to use them.....trying to guilt trip people out of using programs they qualify for is certainly no way to go about it.

If you really feel taxation is 'stealing' then you're free to petition the government or start a protest to end taxation.

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Kraichgauer
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23 May 2012, 11:36 am

Oodain wrote:

you can always opt out of said countries social contract, by moving.

Like that little prick who co-owns Facebook? I personally consider renouncing one's citizenship to avoid taxation to be treason. If I were to renounce my citizenship to avoid military service, I'd be called a traitor - - by the same flag waving hypocrites who are now defending this ass head.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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23 May 2012, 12:00 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

The government thugs and thieves are armed. I am not. So I pay. But I never concede any moral ground to these goniffs. Government is an evil that we must learn to live with. But we don't have to love it.

ruveyn

WilliamWDelaney
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23 May 2012, 1:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

If everyone had a sense of civic duty, anarchy would be perfectly sustainable, even ideal.

As long as one person lacks a sense of civic duty, we will need laws, therefore government.

Government is a necessary evil. It is never a good thing.

ruveyn

Excuse me, but the Blue Ridge Parkway was a government project, and our national parks are maintained by the government. I enjoy camping immensely, and I would just as soon disembowel anyone who suggested that my favorite hang-outs ought to be turned into parking lots.

Kraichgauer
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23 May 2012, 2:29 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

If everyone had a sense of civic duty, anarchy would be perfectly sustainable, even ideal.

As long as one person lacks a sense of civic duty, we will need laws, therefore government.

Government is a necessary evil. It is never a good thing.

ruveyn

Amen.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Robdemanc
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23 May 2012, 2:39 pm

Companies pay lip service to lots of things if they think it sounds good but they are never going to do anything other than worry about their own shareholders.

The public should become more selective in what they buy. That is the only way to have sustainability in the environment.

ruveyn
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23 May 2012, 2:40 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees. If the money for the project had been raised privately it would have been praiseworthy.

ruveyn

techstepgenr8tion
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23 May 2012, 2:52 pm

Social responsibility is really a company's decision. If a company wishes to set itself up as a for-profit and use its profits to fund a philanthrocapitalist venture - that's their prerogative; obviously that's a difficult thing to do if you have shareholders and you're floated on NYSE or NASDAQ. There's nothing wrong with them deciding to do it but setting up a steady reliance on it - I agree, it would be a bit premature and corporate ventures replacing charity of government is something that has not been time-tested.

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Oodain
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23 May 2012, 4:06 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Oodain wrote:

you can always opt out of said countries social contract, by moving.

i view not paying tax in much the same way but in the end if people cant get to grips and cooporate everything falls apart.

when looking from afar the political situation in the us seems to have gone down that road, basic coorperation seems nonexistant(again when looking from afar)

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WilliamWDelaney
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23 May 2012, 4:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees.

If you don't like it, there are other countries you could choose to live in. Paying your taxes is part of the terms and conditions of being allowed to live and do business in America. Here, we think that those terms are perfectly reasonable.

visagrunt
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23 May 2012, 5:09 pm

I take a more Socratic view of government.

That which is necessary cannot be, by reason of its existence alone, be anything other than good.

The absence of government is chaos in which the weak are oppressed by the strong. I take it that the use of the force of the law to prevent that oppression is necessary. But since it is necessary, it is also good.

Now that is not to say that government cannot be corrupted into being something that is less than good. Of course it can.

But to describe government as evil in se is as intellectually ret*d as it is rhetorically elegant.

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techstepgenr8tion
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23 May 2012, 8:41 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Might be fair to say that if its either too big or too small it runs perhaps different risks but of similar gravity.

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ruveyn
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23 May 2012, 8:47 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees.

In other words, knuckle under or get out. Whatever the mob decrees is the Law.

You are truly a champion of liberty.

ruveyn

Oodain
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23 May 2012, 9:18 pm

ruveyn wrote:

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees.

In other words, knuckle under or get out. Whatever the mob decrees is the Law.

You are truly a champion of liberty.

ruveyn

also known as democracy

the shape and form of that can certainly be distorted but in itself that says little about the actual concept

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marshall
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23 May 2012, 9:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees.

In other words, knuckle under or get out. Whatever the mob decrees is the Law.

You are truly a champion of liberty.

ruveyn

Whatever, without things like cooperation, social responsibility, and compromise, peace and prosperity will not exist. People are bound and/or coerced to cooperate at all levels of society. Government is not the only entity enforcing cooperation. It's just one aspect of a continuum that exists on all scales of society. Even four year olds eventually learn that sharing isn't always optional. I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish.

ruveyn
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24 May 2012, 6:21 am

marshall wrote:

I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish.

Actually not. I was the little kids who brought his own toys and made it plain My Toys are Mine and Your Toys are Yours.

I have not the right to sequester other people's property and I never believed that I did even when young.

I grew up believing what is Mine is Mine, what is Yours is Yours and what is His is His.

ruveyn

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