Atheists Who Deconverted- Earliest Source of Doubt?

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Shatbat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,791
Location: Where two great rivers meet

29 May 2012, 11:51 am

I can't really mark an exact moment where I stopped really believing. It was a rather gradual process, as I grew up and started to see things more logically.

I do remember I thought God was a jerk, after he:

- "Hardened the Pharaoh's heart" just so he would chase the jews, so God would be able to show off his power
- Moses strikes some rock twice, then he isn't allowed to see the promised land after all he did.
- The predecessor of Elijah does something wrong, and all his descendants pay for it.

And those are only the ones I still remember from my bible-reading times.

Quote:
I thought God was a jerk


Looking at that, I still think he's a jerk.


_________________
To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. - Winston Churchill


LiendaBalla
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,736

30 May 2012, 4:47 pm

The rules Moses gave his people, and how God didn't give a dam. I was in my late twenties, and had stayed out of the local congregation for a short while.

Shatbat wrote:
I still think he's a jerk.


It's pretty hard for me to not think it to.



Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

30 May 2012, 6:37 pm

Rainy wrote:
Modern Christians hardly follow their holy book, even if they defend it and the atrocities their god commits in it. Their religion can be summed up as "Good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, and Jesus is awesome." And many Christians don't even believe in hell.

The ones who actually do follow their holy book more closely are considered mildly insane.


How insane do those who follow the minutia of dictates of Jewish orthodoxy seem to us who weren't indoctrinated from a young age? It seems to me relatively common among atheists to have come from a Jewish ancestry. The insanity of orthodoxy makes it more obvious that the rest of religion is false.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.


Last edited by Rocky on 30 May 2012, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

30 May 2012, 6:43 pm

Shatbat wrote:
I can't really mark an exact moment where I stopped really believing. It was a rather gradual process, as I grew up and started to see things more logically.

I do remember I thought God was a jerk, after he:

- "Hardened the Pharaoh's heart" just so he would chase the jews, so God would be able to show off his power
- Moses strikes some rock twice, then he isn't allowed to see the promised land after all he did.
- The predecessor of Elijah does something wrong, and all his descendants pay for it.

And those are only the ones I still remember from my bible-reading times.

Quote:
I thought God was a jerk


Looking at that, I still think he's a jerk.


I agree. In fact, not only are the descendants of Elijah made to pay for "the sins of the fathers," but supposedly, all of mankind for the sins of the original couple. Of course, we are offered a life preserver (that we supposedly don't deserve) after we are all thrown in the water to drown. My metaphor doesn't even include the endless torture following the drowning. Oh well, all metaphors have their limits.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.


munch15a
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 153

03 Jun 2012, 1:31 am

TallyMan wrote:
When I encountered evolution as a kid in science classes and that as a consequence the stuff I was being taught in religious education classes about our descent from Adam and Eve was merely mythology but being presented as fact. It opened the floodgates of doubts. More scientific enquiry further relegated the Bible to the realms of mythology and legend.


that makes me sad I assume you are from the usa right ?

most christens outside of the southern parts of America don’t believe that stuff



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

04 Jun 2012, 2:50 pm

I deconverted because as I got older I find it harder to believe and the fact it contradicts my scientific studies in every way like the age of the planet and evolution. Also knowing the fact I would have to have some imaginary being dictate everything I do, and that if god gave me free will then why am I not allowed to be mad at god when he or it can be mad at us and send his wrath on the planet when he pleases. so it comes down to this. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEC0_rEgvRA[/youtube]Not to mention people like this. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neuGrymsUaA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLDABCCFB33157F180[/youtube]


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


spacebrain
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 162

04 Jun 2012, 9:31 pm

It was exactly a decade ago. I asked myself the question, eliminating anyone else in the world. In this way I was able to answer truthfully. The hardest part was overcoming the fears religion instills on you. Hell was the easy one, the hardest one was family. Church created an us versus them mentality within me. So if suddenly I don't believe in Jesus, do I stand in opposition to my family "am I also the enemy of my family?". But I looked beyond all that and gave into reason. I pontificated for hours and even cried, it was tough, but very simple. Just like Lennon said.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

05 Jun 2012, 10:57 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
I deconverted because as I got older I find it harder to believe and the fact it contradicts my scientific studies in every way like the age of the planet and evolution. Also knowing the fact I would have to have some imaginary being dictate everything I do, and that if god gave me free will then why am I not allowed to be mad at god when he or it can be mad at us and send his wrath on the planet when he pleases. so it comes down to this]


God never said you couldn't. It was the church folks who taught that nonsense.

If God made us as we are (complete with lapses of good judgement and a sometime bad temper) why would He object if we behave according to the nature He gave us?

ruveyn



Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

06 Jun 2012, 2:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I deconverted because as I got older I find it harder to believe and the fact it contradicts my scientific studies in every way like the age of the planet and evolution. Also knowing the fact I would have to have some imaginary being dictate everything I do, and that if god gave me free will then why am I not allowed to be mad at god when he or it can be mad at us and send his wrath on the planet when he pleases. so it comes down to this]


God never said you couldn't. It was the church folks who taught that nonsense.

If God made us as we are (complete with lapses of good judgement and a sometime bad temper) why would He object if we behave according to the nature He gave us?

ruveyn


An atheist doesn't hate "God." An atheist does not believe a god exists. On the other hand, we can hate the fictional character in the Bible. Or discuss the hypothetical possibility of how we would react if he were proven to exist.

If there is a word to describe someone who believes he exists, but does not worship him, I don't know what it is.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.


munch15a
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 153

06 Jun 2012, 4:17 pm

Im not sure if thats alway the case ive heard a few peple say i dont belive becouse i hate him becouse ...



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

06 Jun 2012, 4:35 pm

munch15a wrote:
Im not sure if thats alway the case ive heard a few peple say i dont belive becouse i hate him becouse ...


Sounds like a contradiction in terms. You can't hate what you don't believe exists.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

06 Jun 2012, 5:24 pm

I was into a lot of things. I am talking occult, astrology psychics, conspiracy theories, dooms day theories (I knew earth was going to explode in 2012 way before it was cool). I also come from a very Catholic family.

I eventually grew up and figured conspiracy theories were utter BS, later that doomsdays prophecies were BS too. And worse, they are harmful BS.. I noticed that I needed more information and preparation before believing in crazy theories. This is how I was first exposed to skepticism sites.

Eventually, I was friends with psychics and stuff, but I was already too much into skepticism so I started to get into flame wars about how the afore-mentioned things that are clearly utter BS of the harmful kind. Eventually, I got to face an anti-vax mob. Of conspiracy theorists, these are probably the worst, because they do not only cause harm to themselves but to society as a whole.

So, I learned the hard way that psychics are stupid. If psychics can't see past the obviousness stupidity in anti-vax debaters, then they probably aren't really psychics. I was resisting for a good while to apply my newly acquired skepticism and critical thinking in those topics, and this was the trigger that made me figure out the truth. I was just dependent on 'psychic readings' and shielded myself from life with them. I used them to avoid actually taking decisions and to avoid actually working for myself. My skepticism had started to cause collapses into everything I believed.

But it was a slippery slope. Once I learned I had to remove the line that stopped me from being critical of my own views because they were pleasurable and convenient views, my catholic religion, quite rooted into myself was going to be the next victim. Suddenly, the actions of the Catholic church were subject to the same standard I subjected anti-vaxers and doomsday prophets. I started to reload memories from my whole religious education and remembered the parts that did not make any sense. Doubt became like a virus that was gradually eroding my views. I first left Catholicism, and decide to become a Christian without a church that just has a unique and personal interpretation of things. But then I read the bible again but this time from my new point of view, and decided that if there is a god it has nothing to do with the non-sense in that book. So I became kind of like a theist without a denomination.

But it keeps eroding. I think I am now a sort of agnostic or a pantheist or an atheist depending on the day. But only personally. During discussions, I am effectively an atheist. I think the idea of a god as some kind of mysterious cosmical force that we cannot understand may be something fun believing in, but if we are gonna talk about facts, it makes no sense to make any assumption about things like our duties as human or morality starting from such an idea that has no evidence. It is certainly not useful at all to use this imaginary entity (Even when I feel more theistic, I consider my conception of god to be completely imaginary) to explain things. Thus I think that although personally I am a wild card (definitely not Christian, that is BS). I am an atheist in regards to science and in regards to how should the public behave in front of others.

I think I liked believing in such things, but you have to give up belief in things that are not true. Even if those things are dear for you. If a belief follows no evidence, is illogical and has unfortunate consequences, there is nothing I can do... But here is the surprise, although at first it felt like a sacrifice to get rid of those things from my reality, I think it allowed me to grow up as a human. I now know that I am responsible for my life, and for the effects my life will have. I am now the one who decides what to do with my life. There is no dictated fate, predestination or divine rule controlling me. It makes me responsible of my own actions and it also makes me live my own life rather than avoid it. If there is something like a god, it is probably something so large (the universe is humongously large) that I doubt it would care about your grades, or your love life or your disease. Or even your city or your planet. Our planet is way too small in the cosmic scale to be that important.


_________________
.


blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

06 Jun 2012, 6:02 pm

I've said before, my realization of lack of faith came through personal introspection and self examination. An in-depth analysis of what i, in fact, feel, and what was wishful thinking, what was peer pressure, and what was magical thinking.

I feel that i am a healthier, more socially well-adjusted person without religion in my life. I feel that science provides the only answers that are reliable whether or not you believe in them. I reject the concept of the supernatural. If something appears to break the rules of nature, it is probably because i have an incomplete rule book. Any sufficiently advanced technology, and all that.

I feel bad for, and worry about, people who arrive at a rejection of their faith on a basis of some arithmetic that they have used to provide a fulcrum for some leverage to uproot their beliefs.

I read an essay a week or so back about a woman who left the mormon faith after her husband admitted that he is an atheist. She started by assuring him that he means more to her than their church. She obviously loves him. It brought a lot of stress into their lives until she started listening to and accepting the terrible things her husband was reading about the church founders on anti-mormon web sites.

I think she desperately wanted to save her marriage, and in an effort to quell cognitive dissonance she became accepting of statements contrary to what she had learned all her life because it allowed her to unify with her husband.

I think that the first time they have any real marital problems in the future, she will go running back to the church, and it will be hard for everyone.

I was raised mormon, and most of my relatives still cherish that faith. I don't personally care whether joseph smith translated some egyptian text incorrectly in some scripture. It's not relevant to my life. What ancient egyptians believed certainly isn't relevant to my life. My parents believe that the translation was correct and i do not begrudge them that belief.

It's not that i disagree with them on the point, it's that the question, for me, is moot.



Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

07 Jun 2012, 4:57 am

blauSamstag wrote:
I've said before, my realization of lack of faith came through personal introspection and self examination. An in-depth analysis of what i, in fact, feel, and what was wishful thinking, what was peer pressure, and what was magical thinking.

I feel that i am a healthier, more socially well-adjusted person without religion in my life. I feel that science provides the only answers that are reliable whether or not you believe in them. I reject the concept of the supernatural. If something appears to break the rules of nature, it is probably because i have an incomplete rule book. Any sufficiently advanced technology, and all that.

I feel bad for, and worry about, people who arrive at a rejection of their faith on a basis of some arithmetic that they have used to provide a fulcrum for some leverage to uproot their beliefs.

I read an essay a week or so back about a woman who left the mormon faith after her husband admitted that he is an atheist. She started by assuring him that he means more to her than their church. She obviously loves him. It brought a lot of stress into their lives until she started listening to and accepting the terrible things her husband was reading about the church founders on anti-mormon web sites.

I think she desperately wanted to save her marriage, and in an effort to quell cognitive dissonance she became accepting of statements contrary to what she had learned all her life because it allowed her to unify with her husband.

I think that the first time they have any real marital problems in the future, she will go running back to the church, and it will be hard for everyone.

I was raised mormon, and most of my relatives still cherish that faith. I don't personally care whether joseph smith translated some egyptian text incorrectly in some scripture. It's not relevant to my life. What ancient egyptians believed certainly isn't relevant to my life. My parents believe that the translation was correct and i do not begrudge them that belief.

It's not that i disagree with them on the point, it's that the question, for me, is moot.


I was also raised in a religion that I would call a "minority" religion. Christian Science is probably even more so, in terms of population, and deviation from the majority religions. In a way, that made it easier to leave it. Those who were raised in more mainstream religions are probably swayed by the sheer number of people who believe as they do based only on faith. On the other hand, there is a tendency to cling to the tribe when part of a minority. I went from being religious, to no religion, to atheism.

What helped me to see the light was the critical thinking skills I acquired in high school. It was a very progressive public school. I suspect this type of education is rare here in the US. I can't remember if "Candide" was assigned to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.


munch15a
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 153

07 Jun 2012, 11:01 am

TallyMan wrote:
munch15a wrote:
Im not sure if thats alway the case ive heard a few peple say i dont belive becouse i hate him becouse ...


Sounds like a contradiction in terms. You can't hate what you don't believe exists.


I agree but some peple talk as though they hold these contradictory ideas in there head



Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

07 Jun 2012, 1:56 pm

munch15a wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
munch15a wrote:
Im not sure if thats alway the case ive heard a few peple say i dont belive becouse i hate him becouse ...


Sounds like a contradiction in terms. You can't hate what you don't believe exists.


I agree but some peple talk as though they hold these contradictory ideas in there head


I think that is usually due to the fact that it would be awkward and time consuming to continually state something like: "Although I don't believe in any gods, if the god of the Bible did exist, this is what I would think about him." Just stating that you are an atheist implies most of that. Otherwise if you are one of the few who believe in a god, but don't worship him, that should be specified. I would bet that there are much fewer of them.

Most atheists are logically consistent on these issues, unlike most theists, who seem to compartmentalize their beliefs about their god, and their beliefs about the rest of reality.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.