Atheists what are your views on East Asian religions?

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SpiritBlooms
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31 May 2012, 7:43 pm

shrox wrote:

Technically, Christianity is an Eastern religion.

True, I think the Western religions are mostly nature-based.

Joker
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31 May 2012, 7:48 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:

shrox wrote:

Technically, Christianity is an Eastern religion.

True, I think the Western religions are mostly nature-based.

True nature based religions are labled pagan religions.

SpiritBlooms
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31 May 2012, 7:56 pm

Joker wrote:

SpiritBlooms wrote:

shrox wrote:

Technically, Christianity is an Eastern religion.

True, I think the Western religions are mostly nature-based.

True nature based religions are labled pagan religions.

Yes, but only neo-pagans typically label themselves pagan. Many native cultures have what we call pagan religions but have their own names for their beliefs.

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31 May 2012, 7:59 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:

Joker wrote:

SpiritBlooms wrote:

shrox wrote:

Technically, Christianity is an Eastern religion.

True, I think the Western religions are mostly nature-based.

True nature based religions are labled pagan religions.

Yes, but only neo-pagans typically label themselves pagan. Many native cultures have what we call pagan religions but have their own names for their beliefs.

Yes of course that is very true many of them hate the term pagan.

Rocky
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01 Jun 2012, 2:43 am

Joker wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Good for an interesting read, like anything else. When it comes to any religion though I say it is pointless

Finally a atheists that thinks that about all religions and not just one.

Remember, an atheist doesn't believe in any gods. Not just the god of the Bible. It might seem that way, here in the west, but if you ask any atheist, he will usually confirm what I just wrote. Some religions (like Buddhism) are technically atheist, since a god is not part of the religion, but Buddhism includes other beliefs that are supernatural in nature, like reincarnation. I like Buddhism in many ways, like the advocacy of moderation (balance) and their morality, but I do not believe the supernatural parts of it. Most atheists are also skeptics, who don't accept any supernatural claims without sufficient proof.

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Joker
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01 Jun 2012, 2:54 am

Rocky wrote:

Joker wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Good for an interesting read, like anything else. When it comes to any religion though I say it is pointless

Finally a atheists that thinks that about all religions and not just one.

Thank you Rocky you and Vigilans are the only atheists on WP that I can ask a question to with out getting a condescending response.

TallyMan
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01 Jun 2012, 3:17 am

Rocky wrote:

Joker wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Good for an interesting read, like anything else. When it comes to any religion though I say it is pointless

Finally a atheists that thinks that about all religions and not just one.

I concur pretty much with your statements too. I'm actually a Zen Buddhist (loosely speaking) but also an atheist. I do not accept any of the supernatural claims that have been attributed to Buddhism either; it seems to be human nature to add these to any religion. Interestingly many Buddhist cultures also pray to Buddha (Gautama Buddha). Again, I think some people culturally have a propensity to want to believe there is some divine entity running the show to whom they can appeal.

Strip away the superficial fluff from Zen Buddhism and it is not incompatible with atheism or science. Science is actually very much welcome. Personally I view science as an objective investigation into the nature of reality and Zen as a subjective investigation into the nature of mind, consciousness and being, typically through meditation. Advances in neuroscience are sought too as they also cast light into the nature of the mind, consciousness and being from the objective realm.

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heavenlyabyss
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01 Jun 2012, 4:02 am

Joker wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Joker wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Good for an interesting read, like anything else. When it comes to any religion though I say it is pointless

Finally a atheists that thinks that about all religions and not just one.

Thank you Rocky you and Vigilans are the only atheists on WP that I can ask a question to with out getting a condescending response.

Hey, when I have been condescending toward you about religion? I mean, I was a little condescending in one of the politics threads but that had nothing to do with religion. We are not all jerks. I mean I am a jerk but not a huge jerk. Not like an uber jerk or anything.

Anyway, I'm fine with religions that don't cause harm to others. I see Buddhism as mostly "okay" but I don't know a whole lot about it. I've read that even Buddhism has some misogynistic origins. But for the most person, it seems reasonable.

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01 Jun 2012, 4:23 am

Joker wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

Joker wrote:

Rainy wrote:

What's with you and your obsession with atheists?

Well what's their obsession with theists? Answer that qeustion and Ill answer your question.

Theism is a constant factor in politics and day-to-day life that is impossible to avoid. Atheists are easy to avoid. Question answered.

That is a cop out atheists are in the media just like theists are :wink:

I know English isn't your first language and you have Aspergers, but you really need to work on your communication.

Rocky
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01 Jun 2012, 4:33 am

TallyMan wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Joker wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Good for an interesting read, like anything else. When it comes to any religion though I say it is pointless

Finally a atheists that thinks that about all religions and not just one.

It was many years ago that I read some of Alan Watts books about Zen Buddhism. What little I remember strikes me as less dogmatic than most religions. He seemed to propose possibilities and questions, instead of assertions based on personal revelation which is what most religions offer. I see nothing wrong with accepting that which is valuable from many different philosophies, and even religions. I also feel free to not believe the parts which I find without value.

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The-Raven
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01 Jun 2012, 6:31 am

TallyMan wrote:

I share TallyMan's views regarding buddhism and found the zen stuff particularly Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings really meshed with my own views. Though I fall very short of my own ideals especially as far as 'right speech' and 'compassionate listening' goes!!

I tend toward a very harsh athiest views such as those held by Hitchens and Dawkins and I especially dislike Abrahamic religions and view them as destructive and unhelpful to say the least. I think eastern religions in general are not quite as bad as Abrahamic religions as they tend to be more positive about women, the environment, animals, gays and war, but I think they are still silly and nonsensical like believing in unicorns or fairies. Likewise 'new Pagans' tend to have better views in general such as on the environment, womens rights, and war but are also believing silly nonsense (in my opinion) and I would not be able to talk to them about their beliefs without offending them and us both getting cross.

I understand that religion makes people feel better and they get a lot from it, but I just cant relate to how they can believe it, I think my mind and theirs must be just wired very differently and they must see the world in a much more metaphorical way than I am able to.

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01 Jun 2012, 8:35 am

I'm an agnostic.

About Taoism:
I like the idea of "all things in moderation" that seems to be at the heart.
I like the idea that both favor and dishonor are warnings, for each leads to the other.
I like the example of a content person - a person living in a village, and there is another village so close that he can hear their dogs barking, but he has never been there.
I like the ideas of holding the uncarved, and choosing this over that.
I like the idea that it's ok not to strive.

About Shinto:
I don't know as much about Shinto, but I think they have beautiful temples. I love nature, so I like the idea of a nature-based religion. Also, they have those lovely/creepy Shinto gates to the spirit realm, which are awesome and feature in some of my favorite Japanese horror video games and movies. So cool.

ruveyn
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01 Jun 2012, 8:44 am

YippySkippy wrote:

I'm an agnostic.

About Taoism:
I like the idea of "all things in moderation" that seems to be at the heart.
I

Aristotle was on to that over 2000 years ago.

ruveyn

01001011
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01 Jun 2012, 8:55 am

Confucianism:
Confucius WAS a secular humanist. However the Confucianism naturalist morality is very naive (I am a moral non-cognitivist).

Buddhism:
The soul and incineration thing is as wrong as Zeus. Not sure if the there is anything left without that.

Taoism:
Some elements from folk religion added later. Aside from that, Taoism + eliminative materialism + moral non-cognitivism = the ultimate philosophy.

SpiritBlooms
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01 Jun 2012, 10:02 am

01001011 wrote:

Buddhism:
The soul and incineration thing is as wrong as Zeus. Not sure if the there is anything left without that.

Incineration? What are you talking about? Could you be a bit less cryptic?

WilliamWDelaney
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01 Jun 2012, 10:35 am

SpiritBlooms wrote:

01001011 wrote:

Buddhism:
The soul and incineration thing is as wrong as Zeus. Not sure if the there is anything left without that.

Incineration? What are you talking about? Could you be a bit less cryptic?

I thought this was well-known. In many forms of Buddhism, the ideal destiny of the soul is a state of extinction. You stop being trapped in one isolated, lonely identity, and you become one with the universe. Your individual self stops existing.

That's part of where Buddhist morality comes from. They think that all suffering really comes from being out of touch with the universe at large and too focused on the self. They ask you to think in terms of the wider universe and how you are really just a part of it. By doing so, you realize just how mortal and transient your own suffering is, and it seems actually kind of funny that you ever cared about it. When you have reached Nirvana, you have been liberated from your independent existence altogether. You are the stars twinkling in the sky. You are the swirl of cosmic dust. You are the wind, and you are the roar on the tiger's breath. You realize truly how all things are tied together as part of an undivided whole, and everything suddenly makes perfect sense...like you suddenly understood the meaning of a joke and realized why everything is really and truly perfectly okay, in the end. It's really a very attractive philosophy.

Of course, being on the outside, looking in, I might not understand it perfectly.

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