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DC
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25 Jun 2012, 6:48 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

VMSmith wrote:

whoops i mean mikecartwright is a muslim(or at least from memory he is). the right in general is bad on islam. im sure the op will learn who they are if they stick around long enough. they do tend to be vocal. cough ryuven cough.

Do you know it's entirely possible to be left wing and not like Islam? Especially if you're an atheist.

Yup, that is me.

On the political compass I come out inbetween the Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela and Ghandi, so I'm very happy with the political company I keep.

puddingmouse
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25 Jun 2012, 6:54 pm

DC wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

VMSmith wrote:

Do you know it's entirely possible to be left wing and not like Islam? Especially if you're an atheist.

Yup, that is me.

On the political compass I come out inbetween the Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela and Ghandi, so I'm very happy with the political company I keep.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone would think that being leftwing and anti-Islam aren't natural bedfellows. Unless they confuse the people in Islamic countries with the religion itself. Like when people conflate Jews with Israel, these people conflate Palestinians with Islam.

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Inuyasha
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25 Jun 2012, 9:12 pm

simon_says wrote:

Islam is every bit as idiotic as christianity. There is no fundamental difference between them. Traditionalists are the same everywhere. They'll believe anything as long as it's cloaked in tradition. It's like a pacifer.

Strapping bombs to children is not considered to be something that God would approve of in Christianity, putting it rather mildly...

Stepping back from fundamentalist wackos for a second, the New Testament speaks a lot about forgiveness and peace, what the church did in the Middle Ages had a lot to do with the lack of literacy of the populace at the time, than what the Bible actually deems is acceptable behavior.

The Quran on the other hand does condone violence and talks of conquering the infidels (which is people like you and me). That it is okay to not keep one's word if that word is given to an infidel, etc.

Christianity generally does not condone lieing to anyone whether or not they are of the same faith.

TheWolf
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25 Jun 2012, 9:35 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

The Quran on the other hand does condone violence and talks of conquering the infidels (which is people like you and me). That it is okay to not keep one's word if that word is given to an infidel, etc..

No it doesn't.

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mikecartwright
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25 Jun 2012, 9:37 pm

Yes me I converted/reverted to Islam 5 months ago.

TheWolf
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25 Jun 2012, 9:40 pm

mikecartwright wrote:

Yes me I converted/reverted to Islam 5 months ago.

Assalaam Alikum. I converted over 5 years ago

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edgewaters
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25 Jun 2012, 9:41 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Christianity generally does not condone lieing to anyone whether or not they are of the same faith.

Christianity rested its entire secular authority for centuries on a fraudulent document known as the Donation of Constantine, the most famous forgery in history.

The Church Fathers certainly never had a problem with it.

"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived." - Eusebius

"We shall introduce into this history in general only those events which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity." - Eusebius

"Not all true things are the truth, nor should that truth which merely seems true according to human opinions be preferred to the true truth, that according to the faith." -Clement of Alexandria

"For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of the mind, and often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived." - John Chrystosom

Inuyasha
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25 Jun 2012, 9:44 pm

TheWolf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

No it doesn't.

I've read the Quran, I had to read it for a Medieval History class.

TheWolf
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25 Jun 2012, 9:52 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

TheWolf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

No it doesn't.

I've read the Quran, I had to read it for a Medieval History class.

I have several Qu'rans that I have read multiple times each. If you are talking about the quotes where it says to slay the infidels wherever you find them (or something like that), that's because it's referring specifically to the pagan Arabs that were trying to exterminate the early Muslims. The quote was for moral support for the Muslims against the enemy Arabs but it doesn't apply to today (even though extremist Muslims might think so).

An example would be if America was in a fierce war with Mexico and the president told American soldiers to "slay the Mexicans where you find them". But 1000 years from then, if someone saw that quote without knowing the context, it would make the president look like a racist anti-Mexican genocidal maniac. But in truth it would only apply for that time, but there might be a few crazy Americans who would be against illegal immigration who would use that quote to murder innocent Mexicans even though the conflict is long over and no longer applies.

That's what has happened with the "violent" quotes from the Qu'ran.

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puddingmouse
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26 Jun 2012, 1:12 am

TheWolf wrote:

There are quotes like that in the OT, like 'slay the Amalekites'. There is a difference with Christianity, though. It's bizarrely pacifistic in doctrine for an Abrahamic religion. I realised that Christians have slain lots of people in the name of Christ, but nowhere does Jesus recommend slaying anyone. I'm not even a Christian, so I don't know why I'm saying this. I guess I still admire Jesus as a person. What is there to admire about Muhammed?

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ruveyn
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26 Jun 2012, 1:59 am

To all of you new converts to Islam. Strap on your bombs and step right up and get your 72 dark eyed virgins in Paradise.

ruveyn

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26 Jun 2012, 2:52 am

puddingmouse wrote:

TheWolf wrote:

the new testament isnt exactly pacifistic. after the gospels its just blood and gore again. and it was jesus who said "i come not to bring peace but a sword." that aside, muhammad was into social justice as much as jesus was. he encouraged peace, fasting, mercy and alms giving as much as jesus did and some of the stuff he said could well be comprable to what jesus said. eg "god will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to mankind" vs "as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers you did it to me."

peebo
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26 Jun 2012, 3:00 am

is it perhaps a possibility that those westerners who are overly critical of islam based upon what is written in the quran might not actually have read it? i don't particularly like any religion, and i would certainly refrain from criticising one over another without being possessed of some level of expertise on the subject.

rather i would simply consider all of it the opium of the people, or some facet of the people's stick. bakunin, as an example, was particularly scathing of jehovah, and i'd imagine he'd have held the same outlook on allah should islam have been in the position christianity was in his day.

what i don't get is what possesses people to actually believe religion, of any variant.

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noname_ever
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26 Jun 2012, 6:05 am

TheWolf wrote:

An example would be if America was in a fierce war with Mexico and the president told American soldiers to "slay the Mexicans where you find them". But 1000 years from then, if someone saw that quote without knowing the context, it would make the president look like a racist anti-Mexican genocidal maniac. But in truth it would only apply for that time, but there might be a few crazy Americans who would be against illegal immigration who would use that quote to murder innocent Mexicans even though the conflict is long over and no longer applies.

That's what has happened with the "violent" quotes from the Qu'ran.

The problem is that there isn't an explicit expiration date on those passages, which leads to extremism. Most Christians don't follow Leviticus, but it isn't due to anything inherent in the text. It requires the followers to realize that the BS in the text is no longer applicable. That has to happen to a much more in the Islamic world.

DC
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26 Jun 2012, 8:17 am

puddingmouse wrote:

So are Sufis and Ahmadis, bunch of bloody hippies.

Oddly enough mainstream muslims delight in persecuting pacifist sects as apostates and not proper muslims.

Oodain
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26 Jun 2012, 8:18 am

islam is no worse nor better than any other religion people use to justify their violent insanity, christinaity in particular.

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