Question for moderate to conservative Christians

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It seems that way, but he wants to be sure his followers have faith in him. If they believe, they are rewarded by him, like Job. So it could be explained that God lets bad things happen to test and strengthen the faith of his followers. He allows Satan to mess with his followers in order to test their faith, then he rewards them for continuing to believe in God's goodness.

"When his life was ruined, his family killed, his farm destroyed, Job knelt down on the ground and yelled up to the heavens, "Why God? Why me?" and the thundering voice of God answered, "There's just something about you that pisses me off". "

I know how he feels

Much of the trouble in the world can be traced back to some one or group's bad behavior if you look back far enough. Most of it falls back on greed, power, pride, sex (other than LTRs), and pursuit of pleasure at the expense of others. Then people who suffer under the above fall into the snare of laziness/apathy, substance abuse, sex (other than LTRs), and anger. I'm not going to give a history of the world here. Judge for yourself BASED ON THE MORALS OF THE TIME AND CULTURE RATHER THAN MODERN LIBERALISM and see where major mistakes were made even just on their own moral codes alone.

Yes, that explains tsunamis and earthquakes and epidemics and the lingering deaths they cause. Sex and liberalism and pride.

Hmmm... so morals are relative? Some people say that abortion should be OK since it is not mentioned in the Bible.

I think you've got it wrong. I'm against abortion in most cases (or almost all), by the way, and I don't think we should allow God to allow bad things in the past just as many would not allow modern abortion.

Actually, sex, liberalism and pride is what caused Judaism and Islam.

I knew it!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Clearly if God was, as the Bible claims, all-powerful, all-knowing etc the presence of evil in the world and the suffering it causes makes no sense. This alone shows that God, if he exists, cannot be the all-powerful, all-knowing entity the Bible claims he is. The only reason I didn't reject Christianity completely and become an atheist is that there is indeed evidence of a god-like force of nature. It's called evolution. And the reason humans believe in God is because we each have a version of this god within us. All creatures are connected to the ecosystem, to nature through their DNA. We innately feel this presence because our subconscious is in contact with it.

But our ancestors had no understanding of evolution, nature and physics so they invented a person, God, to explain it all. I used to go along with Christianity but my logical mind eventually dismantled it when faced with the inconsistencies and contradictions of scripture. The whole concept of faith goes against common sense. To believe in something for which there is no evidence is a sign of madness. That sort of thinking is akin to superstition. Society cannot progress very far when it thinks like that. That sort of faith-thinking leads to evil and suffering, so it is unlikely that a loving God would have asked us to think like that.

The answer to the question posed by the thread is not simple. First, you need to define what you mean by God. If you're referring to our creator (evolution), then why wouldn't evil exist? It's the inevitable consequence of making immoral choices. But if you're referring to a God-person creator, then He would have had to have made a big mistake to include evil if he had any choice in the matter.

Not to drift off from the primary topic, but I also found much foundation for my faith by recognizing the reality of evolution, and how (I believe) God's hand is guiding it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I think it is a mistake for religions to reject the idea of evolution out of hand; evolution is far more apparent in the handywork of Nature than a six-day-creator's hand. By doing so, they are attacking the very process used by "their creator".

A person who chooses to be spiritual and moral should be able to do so without surrendering logical and rational thought to faith in something for which there is no evidence. Similarly, scientists need to be less religious about science, and be prepared to revise failed theories for which there is little or no evidence - such as evolution being nothing more than random chance. There is indeed a guiding hand in the process itself, a direction it is taking.

Society needs to stop equating religion with morality and evolution with immorality. Just because we have a common ancestor with Chimps or Bonobos does not mean that we descended from Chimps or Bonobos. Why do people cringe at the thought that we evolved? They should revere the magnificent process of evolution that brought us to where we are - because this is our creator god. A god, for my money, far more awesome than one who snapped His fingers 6000 years ago and made us the only viable ecosystem in the entire universe, only to leave us here to our own devices.

Well said, sir!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Good to know! I'll remember that next time.

Cataclysms have to do more with when God chooses to allow people to die than suffering from evil in the world. Can, in theory, cataclysms be used by God for judgment against depraved people? Yes. Does he? That answer is out there, but people's opinions on the matter varies on your beliefs.


What I was getting at is that the moral standards of modern liberalism are so flexible and heavily based on relativism, so to get perspective on actions in history, for the purpose of internal consistency of the examination it would be best to analyze how various people violated the widely accepted culture and belief system they lived in. For example: the general concept of colonialism is not an issue by itself, but the treatment of [all] it's subjects and the royal pissing contests over the lands that different monarchs envy quickly becomes a slippery slope.


Sex, yes. Liberalism and pride, no. Ishmael was a mistake on Abraham's part because he got impatient with God. God allowed Ishmael and his subsequent spawn to exist, even though God did not approve of it, out of respect of the free will mankind was given.

I believe that God has a better idea of eternity than we do, and so he allows evil on earth because suffering builds character and makes us better souls. If we lived in utopia, we would be a bunch of baby brained idiots, unable to progress. If Adam and Eve were to stay in the garden of eden, they would have been forever miserable because they couldn't progress. I know not all christians will agree with me, but this is my personal belief.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

Life is short, eternity is forever. Wouldn't a short period of time in a fallen, depressing world be made up by an eternity in His kingdom? I really think you guys should read works by CS Lewis. He was even an atheist before he returned to Christianity.

No