Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Fibonacci numbers - The Fingerprint of God

Page 2 of 6 [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

11 Sep 2012, 10:04 am

TallyMan wrote:
Y = 3X + 5X and X = 1/8

Therefore: Y = X(3 + 5)

Therefore: Y = 8/8

Therefore: Y = 1 and God exists! Proof positive. :P

Stay tuned for tomorrow's Jehovah's Witnesses algebra lesson, where we will use Pythagoras theorem to prove that the Devil exists and that he ate a bacon sandwich for lunch while riding on a unicycle and thinking about his strategy for Armageddon.

What colour was the unicycle?



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

11 Sep 2012, 10:13 am

Fnord wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Y = 3X + 5X and X = 1/8

Therefore: Y = X(3 + 5)

Therefore: Y = 8/8

Therefore: Y = 1 and God exists! Proof positive. :P

Stay tuned for tomorrow's Jehovah's Witnesses algebra lesson, where we will use Pythagoras theorem to prove that the Devil exists and that he ate a bacon sandwich for lunch while riding on a unicycle and thinking about his strategy for Armageddon.

What colour was the unicycle?


We will unravel that mystery in a later lesson when we explore calculus and the first derivatives of Y = 3X + X^2


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

11 Sep 2012, 11:29 am

Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect.

Deal with it.


This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Sep 2012, 11:31 am

Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect.

Deal with it.


This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.


Rounding to 3.0 is crude and primative. Even the Egyptians did better. They use 3 and 1/9 as an approximation to pi.

ruveyn



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

11 Sep 2012, 11:32 am

Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect. Deal with it.
This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.

Rounding exists.

A perfect Bible does not.



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

11 Sep 2012, 12:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect. Deal with it.
This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.

Rounding exists.

A perfect Bible does not.


Now that is accepting that rounding exists.

If you want to debate about wether the Bible is morally sound, that is one thing, but attacking for rounding pi is just silly. Even if you were to make a big deal out of it it wouldn't matter because the Bible is not a math book and a perfect representation of pi is not necessary to serve the Bible's purposes. After all, If Jesus started listing all the didgits of pi in the middle of a sermon, I doubt many of the people living in 1st century Judea would have been very inspired.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm

Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect. Deal with it.
This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.

Rounding exists.

A perfect Bible does not.


Now that is accepting that rounding exists.

If you want to debate about wether the Bible is morally sound, that is one thing, but attacking for rounding pi is just silly. Even if you were to make a big deal out of it it wouldn't matter because the Bible is not a math book and a perfect representation of pi is not necessary to serve the Bible's purposes. After all, If Jesus started listing all the didgits of pi in the middle of a sermon, I doubt many of the people living in 1st century Judea would have been very inspired.


In several States laws were proposed to make the legal definition of pi 3.0 because that is what is in the O.T.

ruveyn



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

11 Sep 2012, 12:34 pm

Tensu wrote:
If Jesus started listing all the didgits of pi in the middle of a sermon, I doubt many of the people living in 1st century Judea would have been very inspired.


Pi is fascinating; much more entertaining than those dry hypocritical services I had to listen to as a kid. :P


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Sep 2012, 12:37 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Tensu wrote:
If Jesus started listing all the didgits of pi in the middle of a sermon, I doubt many of the people living in 1st century Judea would have been very inspired.


Pi is fascinating; much more entertaining than those dry hypocritical services I had to listen to as a kid. :P


Pi's overarching algebraic properties are what are fascinating. Pi is transcendental. It is not the root of any algebraic equation with rational co-efficient. The various definitions of pi in terms of series, continued fractions and integrals are also quite interesting.

ruveyn



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

11 Sep 2012, 12:38 pm

I would agree that Pi is fascinating. Much more entertaining than the snide and hypocritical remarks atheists make about other people's beliefs. :tongue:



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm

Tensu wrote:
I would agree that Pi is fascinating. Much more entertaining than the snide and hypocritical remarks atheists make about other people's beliefs. :tongue:


Strictly speaking, an atheist make no positive assertions. He says he has not been convinced of the existence of this god or that god by evidence so he will not worship this god or that god. What is wrong with that?

ruveyn



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

11 Sep 2012, 1:56 pm

Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tensu wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Using the wrong value for Pi (among other things) makes the Bible imperfect. Deal with it.
This is not dealing with the fact that rounding exists. Try again.

Rounding exists.

A perfect Bible does not.


Now that is accepting that rounding exists.

If you want to debate about wether the Bible is morally sound, that is one thing, but attacking for rounding pi is just silly. Even if you were to make a big deal out of it it wouldn't matter because the Bible is not a math book and a perfect representation of pi is not necessary to serve the Bible's purposes. After all, If Jesus started listing all the didgits of pi in the middle of a sermon, I doubt many of the people living in 1st century Judea would have been very inspired.


If you make a proposition that the Bible is the word of "God" (which most Christians do) and also that "God" is perfect, then why would any information in the Bible be incorrect? I know this is "just" logic but it seems to be at least somewhat coherent.

If you on the other hand propose that the Bible is the written down account of people who claimed to have contact with a "perfect" "God" yet who they themselves were not "perfect" then it of course changes. However, at that stage every single word of the Bible has to be called into question on that account.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

11 Sep 2012, 2:04 pm

God must have weird friggin fingertips to leave strings of numbers behind


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

11 Sep 2012, 2:08 pm

Quote:
...takes more faith to believe something this complex appeared by mere chance


That the universe is an awesome mystery is not in question. But no matter what you believe you should feel the same level of wonder. That faithniks can talk themselves into thinking it's all pretty ordinary once you add a super being just confuses me. The selective wonder of faithniks.



Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

11 Sep 2012, 2:31 pm

kxmode wrote:
Many thousands of years ago these inspired words were written, "For [God's] invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;" (Romans 1:20) From the sub-atomic to the grand cosmos the Fibonacci numbers are found everywhere. It shows, proof, that a Creator left his signature for all the world to see. Another scripture simply states "Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God." (Hebrews 3:4)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9MwNm0gXd8[/youtube]How could evolution be responsible for this mathematical miracle? Evolution suggests that everything came about by mere chance and through a process of elimination arrived at the final product. However evolution cannot explain the Fibonacci numbers. The fact that these numbers appear everywhere shows that evolution, or the chance existence of things, is not true.


It is very interesting, but what is godly about being able to add up the last two numbers to get the next one? Maybe a better example is the power of 2, because it is what made all of life begin. 1 becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8........

But I like the fact the numbers appear in nature. But I would say it is more a sign that humanity is very good at identifying these patterns rather than a great designer exists.



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

11 Sep 2012, 2:34 pm

kxmode wrote:
...takes more faith to believe something this complex appeared by mere chance.


Chance is your problem and the problem of a lot of faith-based people. It's one of those fundamental wire-crossings that there are two positions, its either by mere chance or by design. First of all, things just didn't "appear" at their current level of complexity and secondly natural selection is not a matter of "mere chance".

Scientists say that 99.2% of all species that have ever existed have now died out (http://www.lassp.cornell.edu/newmme/sci ... ction.html) so you're kind of in a problematic position. To use an analogy, if you built 100 houses, 99 of them would now have collapsed and the last one would be missing it's roof, a wall or its floor. I'd say that would make you the crappiest house builder of all time.

So, even if you are correct and there is a designer behind the Universe, he kind of sucks at it.