Which pre-Christian civilization was best for women?

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Which pre-Christian civilization was best for women?
Israelite/Jewish 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
Midianite/Moabite 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Sumerian 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Egyptian 22%  22%  [ 5 ]
Mesopotamian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Babylonian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Chaldean 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Assyrian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Persian 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Greek 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Roman 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Carthaginian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Canaanite 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Philistine 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ancient Indian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ancient Chinese 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Germanic or Celtic Tribes 26%  26%  [ 6 ]
Ancient Arabian 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other (please specify) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 23

Misslizard
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11 Nov 2012, 3:59 pm

In ancient Sumer the women were the only ones who could brew beer,and serve it.If they were wealthy they could have more than one husband,They could be elected as En,the High Priestess ,men could also be elected as High Priest.Any woman that had control of the booze of a civilization would have to be pretty powerful.Until Urukagna The Reformer in 2400 B.C. banned women from having more than one hubby,his statement was"If a woman takes a second husband,her teeth will be bashed with bricks".Women's status and wealth declined even further after that till "If a wife contradicts her husband her teeth shall be bashed with bricks".I think what happened is somehow the men got the beer recipe :lol: We lost our status after that.
Egypt or the ancient Celts would be my other choices.



ArrantPariah
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11 Nov 2012, 4:45 pm

Pyrite wrote:
This is the first time I've ever heard forced prostitution described as a triumph for women's rights. 8O
It sounds horrible.

I would also point out that the condemnation of temple prostitution you quoted from Deuteronomy is explicitly non-gendered ("man or woman").


Women's participation was of central importance to the Babylonian religion. Without their devotion, Gods might have been angered, crops might have failed, and Babylonians might have starved.

Puddingmouse wrote:
AND the first time I've ever heard anyone called 'gay' for objecting to it.


I'm thinking that Herodotus might have preferred a religion that prescribed buggering young boys.



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11 Nov 2012, 4:52 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Pyrite wrote:
This is the first time I've ever heard forced prostitution described as a triumph for women's rights. 8O
It sounds horrible.

I would also point out that the condemnation of temple prostitution you quoted from Deuteronomy is explicitly non-gendered ("man or woman").


Women's participation was of central importance to the Babylonian religion. Without their devotion, Gods might have been angered, crops might have failed, and Babylonians might have starved.

Puddingmouse wrote:
AND the first time I've ever heard anyone called 'gay' for objecting to it.


I'm thinking that Herodotus might have preferred a religion that prescribed buggering young boys.


The question was which the ladies would have preferred.

You really think they want forced prostitution? I don't think the fact that the society attached collective important to the practice really balances that out.



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11 Nov 2012, 4:59 pm

Well, the flip side of the coin was Rome's Vestal Virgins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestal_Virgin

At least in Babylon, one screw and you're done. In Rome, one screw and you're toast.



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11 Nov 2012, 5:03 pm

thomas81 wrote:
In Ancient Britain under the celts, men and women were entirely equal both at home and the battlefield.


Don't leave Ireland out of that, But yea I agree. The celts were the better in my opinion we even had devorse and women got half of their partners holdings. If I remember correctly that's what happened with Budaca(I can't recall the correct spelling). Either her husband or her Father died and left his kingdom split between her and the Romans, but the Romans refused to accept a woman could legaly inhereit and rule part of the kingdom, So to make an example of her they had her daughters raped and lands taken.

Course as for the battlefield side, Cu Chulainn went and trained with a warrior women from scotland.


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11 Nov 2012, 5:19 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, the flip side of the coin was Rome's Vestal Virgins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestal_Virgin

At least in Babylon, one screw and you're done. In Rome, one screw and you're toast.


Vestal Virgins seem not to have been very numerous and connoted some degree of status, according to the article Vestal Virgins seem to have been granted special rights beyond those of most Roman women.

Few Roman woman were Vestal Virgins, it seems like all Babylonian women were forced into prostitution on a temporary basis.



Jono
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11 Nov 2012, 5:29 pm

Egyptian women had higher status than women in other societies at the time.



ArrantPariah
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12 Nov 2012, 5:34 am

Pyrite wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, the flip side of the coin was Rome's Vestal Virgins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestal_Virgin

At least in Babylon, one screw and you're done. In Rome, one screw and you're toast.


Vestal Virgins seem not to have been very numerous and connoted some degree of status, according to the article Vestal Virgins seem to have been granted special rights beyond those of most Roman women.

Few Roman woman were Vestal Virgins, it seems like all Babylonian women were forced into prostitution on a temporary basis.


Babylon was a bit more democratic that way, too.



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12 Nov 2012, 5:48 am

This is unusual: a topic that touches upon feminism, and that hasn't yet gone on for scores of pages.

Certainly some of the ladies must have taken some ancient history classes, or read some books/watched some TV documentaries, and formed some opinions along the lines of "this culture was dreamy" or "that culture really sucked."

Or, have the ladies determined that they have never had it so good as in the present, and would rather keep quiet about it? Are the women now on top of the world?



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12 Nov 2012, 8:14 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

Babylon was a bit more democratic that way, too.


Babylon and Sumer were never democratic. Not in -any- way. The people were considered property of the king.

ruveyn



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12 Nov 2012, 1:58 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
This is unusual: a topic that touches upon feminism, and that hasn't yet gone on for scores of pages.

Certainly some of the ladies must have taken some ancient history classes, or read some books/watched some TV documentaries, and formed some opinions along the lines of "this culture was dreamy" or "that culture really sucked."

Or, have the ladies determined that they have never had it so good as in the present, and would rather keep quiet about it? Are the women now on top of the world?


They all sucked and it still sucks, but not as hard as it did back then.



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12 Nov 2012, 2:04 pm

Celtic women fought nakid in the battlefield covered in war paint they werent to be underestimated though they were just as ruthless as the men.


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12 Nov 2012, 3:44 pm

I like Greece. I'm not sure if women there liked it but I just like it. Sometimes I think that ancient Greek pederasty has a worse reputation than it deserves. The boys in question had a deep emotional relationship with their mentors and not just a sexual one.


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12 Nov 2012, 4:11 pm

Sparta


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12 Nov 2012, 4:20 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
This is unusual: a topic that touches upon feminism, and that hasn't yet gone on for scores of pages.

Certainly some of the ladies must have taken some ancient history classes, or read some books/watched some TV documentaries, and formed some opinions along the lines of "this culture was dreamy" or "that culture really sucked."

Or, have the ladies determined that they have never had it so good as in the present, and would rather keep quiet about it? Are the women now on top of the world?


I've already said as much.

As for being on top of the world, in Western countries at least, women-folk have ample opportunity to carve out their own niche in life. Granted, there's still room for improvement, but that's true for many groups of people.

I don't pine for past cultures. Most past cultures blew chunks when it came to treatment of women. I've noticed that it's almost always heterosexual white dudes who have a yen for wanting to experience ancient lifestyles.


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12 Nov 2012, 4:40 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I've noticed that it's almost always heterosexual white dudes who have a yen for wanting to experience ancient lifestyles.


When that time machine finally gets invented, I want to go to Babylon. :wink:

Homosexuals might have enjoyed certain aspects of certain cultures, too.

Is the field of ancient history dominated by heterosexual white dudes? If more chicks got involved, then maybe some of the story lines would have been, maybe, steamier in the other direction?

It is a shame that the ladies don't really have anything until, what, Emily Brontë?