OMG Low birthrates
Y'know, I've always wondered: Why is it that only SMART people are using birth control???
That is a rather important question. It turns out SMART people are often educated people and our education system is infected from basement to roof by suicidal altruism. We are convinced that it is our duty as smart ethical people to sacrifice our own best interests in favor of the stupid, the lazy and the worthless.. Smart people are taught to be guilty about their clear superiority and to put on a humble face.
ruveyn
AngelRho
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Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
Y'know, I've always wondered: Why is it that only SMART people are using birth control???
That is a rather important question. It turns out SMART people are often educated people and our education system is infected from basement to roof by suicidal altruism. We are convinced that it is our duty as smart ethical people to sacrifice our own best interests in favor of the stupid, the lazy and the worthless.. Smart people are taught to be guilty about their clear superiority and to put on a humble face.
ruveyn
Somebody, I don't care who, but somebody PLEASE slap the hell out of me if I start raising my kids to think like that!
I think this is the reason for that old school religious wisdom that demonizes birth control and the cultural acceptance of sex as an activity for pleasure not directly tied to procreation. Throughout most of history procreation was important because family was the only real "social safety net". Large families create a loyal built in community willing to work for the common good. Modern individualistic society is an aberration from the norm. Modern society can prosper as long as there is a surplus of material wealth to substitute for community. However, if the surplus of wealth ever peters out there is great distress and insecurity. It's funny as both the political right and left have acknowledged this problem since the 19th century.
I view this as a good thing because the US should still have high enough wages in the future to have people want to immigrate. Also a higher birth rate has other causes like higher land prices because all land is fixed and perfectly inelastic. I wish the birth rate was lower for the uneducated. Also slower total population growth means a higher steady state level of gdp per capita in the Solow model. Also more population growth means more economic losses due to traffic and losing time. Also in the short run wages will go up from less people.
AngelRho
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
I consider myself part of the religious right. While I do agree often with the conservative evangelicals I identify with, there are a few rare points that I think are just downright silly. I just can't say that I find arguments against birth control as being all that convincing.
My biggest problem with conservative evangelical Christians is they are AGAINST both birth control AND procreation. Not procreation per se, but we tend to possess values that are often internally at odds with each other.
Save money, don't spend--that's good, old-fashioned wisdom. It keeps you out of trouble. Nothing wrong with being a good steward of money. But "kids are expensive," so they tell you to wait until you're older and can afford them before you think about having them. Um...what??? That would put me at, what, 55 years old? Women of childbearing age look at me with revulsion as it is. It's not going to be any better if I'm a crusty old man hitting on college chicks!! ! And what about women? Same scenario, many women would be past childbearing age by that point, anyway.
Oh, and don't have sex until you're married. Yes, we're called to sexual purity. Nothing wrong with that. But we also value a college education and a solid start to our careers. OK, so you take horny teenagers, put them together on a school campus, take down all the barriers their parents put around them, and expect them to "just do the right thing"? Gimme a break! They've been waiting 5+ years. You really want to make them wait 15 more? It's unfair and unrealistic.
Common sense...
You're a conservative evangelical. You want your kids to espouse Biblical values. So where in the whole Bible does it say kids are entitled to a college education? Where in the Bible does it say we have to wait until we're 40 to get married? Where in the Bible does it say being independently successful is a prerequisite for marriage? Nowhere!! ! The Bible doesn't give a rip about your ejikayshun. It cares about your spiritual health. To glorify God, one must go beyond what we currently think of as being "conventional wisdom." And, by the way, the Bible isn't all that optimistic about "the wisdom of man." Set kids up for success and they don't NEED a higher education (although it does help, don't misunderstand me, and in some cases is required). Develop their work ethic and personal initiative. Help them find mates who share the same spiritual ideals. Encourage them to marry early so they don't have to wait and compromise purity values. Provide an extended family support system when grandchildren come along so new parents don't have to fly by the seat of their pants. And none of that means you have to be anti-intellectual--after all, the Bible DOES say the pursuit of wisdom is a GOOD thing. My point is that Christian parents too often plant one child's foot in secular doodoo and the other foot in righteousness. No matter how righteous the kids try to be, they're still going to end up smelling like sh!t. Kids coming out of Christian homes deserve better than that. But Christian parents just don't understand how to teach kids to reach for independent success and all of God's blessings without compromise.
And, I mean, that's just from my perspective. Parents who raise smart kids, not necessarily religious, need to instill the importance of bringing more smart people into the world since smart people have both the genetic edge as well as (hopefully) the good sense to provide an optimum environment for learning and reinforcement. Avoid sex until majority age, get into a stable relationship as quickly as possible, get married, make babies, and work hard at personal enrichment as well as bringing in income. Rather than raise kids to work FOR someone, teach them how to take charge and get things done, to lead by example, to display personal initiative, and to work together as a family for the betterment of the family as well as contributing to the rest of society.
I'm already doing this. I have a 5 year old who can play piano better than students I've worked with for 5 years. Even my 3 year old can play simple, 3-note tunes on piano and will be learning to read music in the next few months. Heck, my 3 year old takes care of my 7 month old when I'm busy. And even my 3 year old knows how to turn on the house sound system at church and help me put speakers on stands. My 5 year old knows the differences among power cables, TRS audio patch cables, microphone cables, and MIDI cables. The same 5 year old is also showing signs of perfect pitch, although it could be just good pitch memory as the basis for relative pitch. Still, I've got kids 5 and under showing abnormal or unusual skills for kids their age. Maybe being little rock stars isn't what they'd prefer to do as they get older, but being thoroughly trained in the "family business" can prove to be an advantage if they want to have a lifelong career in music, or at least they learn firsthand the steps to succeed at whatever they do want to do if they choose otherwise.
As they get older, here's my plan: My daughter should get on birth control as early as is appropriate. It's not because I approve of underage sex or unmarried sex, but purely as a precaution. I trust her fine. I know not to trust other boys. I plan to take an active role in their education, helping with homework, etc. I want to take an active supervisory role in their "romantic lives" and social lives to make sure they continue to make good decisions. If they choose to go to college, fine; if they want to continue to help me, AWESOME!! ! If they want to get married early, I'll help them every way I reasonably can, and I'll continue to help them make SMART decisions so that when they have hundreds of children of their own, their children will also be SMART. The two main things I want to be sure of is that my kids 1) act like smart people and 2) avoid morally objectionable behavior. Get those two things right, and I'll encourage them in whatever they want. Do stupid things and indulge in immorality, and I've got nothing for you.
AngelRho
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
I consider myself part of the religious right. While I do agree often with the conservative evangelicals I identify with, there are a few rare points that I think are just downright silly. I just can't say that I find arguments against birth control as being all that convincing.
My biggest problem with conservative evangelical Christians is they are AGAINST both birth control AND procreation. Not procreation per se, but we tend to possess values that are often internally at odds with each other.
Save money, don't spend--that's good, old-fashioned wisdom. It keeps you out of trouble. Nothing wrong with being a good steward of money. But "kids are expensive," so they tell you to wait until you're older and can afford them before you think about having them. Um...what??? That would put me at, what, 55 years old? Women of childbearing age look at me with revulsion as it is. It's not going to be any better if I'm a crusty old man hitting on college chicks!! ! And what about women? Same scenario, many women would be past childbearing age by that point, anyway.
Oh, and don't have sex until you're married. Yes, we're called to sexual purity. Nothing wrong with that. But we also value a college education and a solid start to our careers. OK, so you take horny teenagers, put them together on a school campus, take down all the barriers their parents put around them, and expect them to "just do the right thing"? Gimme a break! They've been waiting 5+ years. You really want to make them wait 15 more? It's unfair and unrealistic.
Common sense...
You're a conservative evangelical. You want your kids to espouse Biblical values. So where in the whole Bible does it say kids are entitled to a college education? Where in the Bible does it say we have to wait until we're 40 to get married? Where in the Bible does it say being independently successful is a prerequisite for marriage? Nowhere!! ! The Bible doesn't give a rip about your ejikayshun. It cares about your spiritual health. To glorify God, one must go beyond what we currently think of as being "conventional wisdom." And, by the way, the Bible isn't all that optimistic about "the wisdom of man." Set kids up for success and they don't NEED a higher education (although it does help, don't misunderstand me, and in some cases is required). Develop their work ethic and personal initiative. Help them find mates who share the same spiritual ideals. Encourage them to marry early so they don't have to wait and compromise purity values. Provide an extended family support system when grandchildren come along so new parents don't have to fly by the seat of their pants. And none of that means you have to be anti-intellectual--after all, the Bible DOES say the pursuit of wisdom is a GOOD thing. My point is that Christian parents too often plant one child's foot in secular doodoo and the other foot in righteousness. No matter how righteous the kids try to be, they're still going to end up smelling like sh!t. Kids coming out of Christian homes deserve better than that. But Christian parents just don't understand how to teach kids to reach for independent success and all of God's blessings without compromise.
And, I mean, that's just from my perspective. Parents who raise smart kids, not necessarily religious, need to instill the importance of bringing more smart people into the world since smart people have both the genetic edge as well as (hopefully) the good sense to provide an optimum environment for learning and reinforcement. Avoid sex until majority age, get into a stable relationship as quickly as possible, get married, make babies, and work hard at personal enrichment as well as bringing in income. Rather than raise kids to work FOR someone, teach them how to take charge and get things done, to lead by example, to display personal initiative, and to work together as a family for the betterment of the family as well as contributing to the rest of society.
I'm already doing this. I have a 5 year old who can play piano better than students I've worked with for 5 years. Even my 3 year old can play simple, 3-note tunes on piano and will be learning to read music in the next few months. Heck, my 3 year old takes care of my 7 month old when I'm busy. And even my 3 year old knows how to turn on the house sound system at church and help me put speakers on stands. My 5 year old knows the differences among power cables, TRS audio patch cables, microphone cables, and MIDI cables. The same 5 year old is also showing signs of perfect pitch, although it could be just good pitch memory as the basis for relative pitch. Still, I've got kids 5 and under showing abnormal or unusual skills for kids their age. Maybe being little rock stars isn't what they'd prefer to do as they get older, but being thoroughly trained in the "family business" can prove to be an advantage if they want to have a lifelong career in music, or at least they learn firsthand the steps to succeed at whatever they do want to do if they choose otherwise.
As they get older, here's my plan: My daughter should get on birth control as early as is appropriate. It's not because I approve of underage sex or unmarried sex, but purely as a precaution. I trust her fine. I know not to trust other boys. I plan to take an active role in their education, helping with homework, etc. I want to take an active supervisory role in their "romantic lives" and social lives to make sure they continue to make good decisions. If they choose to go to college, fine; if they want to continue to help me, AWESOME!! ! If they want to get married early, I'll help them every way I reasonably can, and I'll continue to help them make SMART decisions so that when they have hundreds of children of their own, their children will also be SMART. The two main things I want to be sure of is that my kids 1) act like smart people and 2) avoid morally objectionable behavior. Get those two things right, and I'll encourage them in whatever they want. Do stupid things and indulge in immorality, and I've got nothing for you.
I consider myself part of the religious right. While I do agree often with the conservative evangelicals I identify with, there are a few rare points that I think are just downright silly. I just can't say that I find arguments against birth control as being all that convincing.
My biggest problem with conservative evangelical Christians is they are AGAINST both birth control AND procreation. Not procreation per se, but we tend to possess values that are often internally at odds with each other.
Save money, don't spend--that's good, old-fashioned wisdom. It keeps you out of trouble. Nothing wrong with being a good steward of money. But "kids are expensive," so they tell you to wait until you're older and can afford them before you think about having them. Um...what??? That would put me at, what, 55 years old? Women of childbearing age look at me with revulsion as it is. It's not going to be any better if I'm a crusty old man hitting on college chicks!! ! And what about women? Same scenario, many women would be past childbearing age by that point, anyway.
Oh, and don't have sex until you're married. Yes, we're called to sexual purity. Nothing wrong with that. But we also value a college education and a solid start to our careers. OK, so you take horny teenagers, put them together on a school campus, take down all the barriers their parents put around them, and expect them to "just do the right thing"? Gimme a break! They've been waiting 5+ years. You really want to make them wait 15 more? It's unfair and unrealistic.
Common sense...
You're a conservative evangelical. You want your kids to espouse Biblical values. So where in the whole Bible does it say kids are entitled to a college education? Where in the Bible does it say we have to wait until we're 40 to get married? Where in the Bible does it say being independently successful is a prerequisite for marriage? Nowhere!! ! The Bible doesn't give a rip about your ejikayshun. It cares about your spiritual health. To glorify God, one must go beyond what we currently think of as being "conventional wisdom." And, by the way, the Bible isn't all that optimistic about "the wisdom of man." Set kids up for success and they don't NEED a higher education (although it does help, don't misunderstand me, and in some cases is required). Develop their work ethic and personal initiative. Help them find mates who share the same spiritual ideals. Encourage them to marry early so they don't have to wait and compromise purity values. Provide an extended family support system when grandchildren come along so new parents don't have to fly by the seat of their pants. And none of that means you have to be anti-intellectual--after all, the Bible DOES say the pursuit of wisdom is a GOOD thing. My point is that Christian parents too often plant one child's foot in secular doodoo and the other foot in righteousness. No matter how righteous the kids try to be, they're still going to end up smelling like sh!t. Kids coming out of Christian homes deserve better than that. But Christian parents just don't understand how to teach kids to reach for independent success and all of God's blessings without compromise.
And, I mean, that's just from my perspective. Parents who raise smart kids, not necessarily religious, need to instill the importance of bringing more smart people into the world since smart people have both the genetic edge as well as (hopefully) the good sense to provide an optimum environment for learning and reinforcement. Avoid sex until majority age, get into a stable relationship as quickly as possible, get married, make babies, and work hard at personal enrichment as well as bringing in income. Rather than raise kids to work FOR someone, teach them how to take charge and get things done, to lead by example, to display personal initiative, and to work together as a family for the betterment of the family as well as contributing to the rest of society.
I'm already doing this. I have a 5 year old who can play piano better than students I've worked with for 5 years. Even my 3 year old can play simple, 3-note tunes on piano and will be learning to read music in the next few months. Heck, my 3 year old takes care of my 7 month old when I'm busy. And even my 3 year old knows how to turn on the house sound system at church and help me put speakers on stands. My 5 year old knows the differences among power cables, TRS audio patch cables, microphone cables, and MIDI cables. The same 5 year old is also showing signs of perfect pitch, although it could be just good pitch memory as the basis for relative pitch. Still, I've got kids 5 and under showing abnormal or unusual skills for kids their age. Maybe being little rock stars isn't what they'd prefer to do as they get older, but being thoroughly trained in the "family business" can prove to be an advantage if they want to have a lifelong career in music, or at least they learn firsthand the steps to succeed at whatever they do want to do if they choose otherwise.
As they get older, here's my plan: My daughter should get on birth control as early as is appropriate. It's not because I approve of underage sex or unmarried sex, but purely as a precaution. I trust her fine. I know not to trust other boys. I plan to take an active role in their education, helping with homework, etc. I want to take an active supervisory role in their "romantic lives" and social lives to make sure they continue to make good decisions. If they choose to go to college, fine; if they want to continue to help me, AWESOME!! ! If they want to get married early, I'll help them every way I reasonably can, and I'll continue to help them make SMART decisions so that when they have hundreds of children of their own, their children will also be SMART. The two main things I want to be sure of is that my kids 1) act like smart people and 2) avoid morally objectionable behavior. Get those two things right, and I'll encourage them in whatever they want. Do stupid things and indulge in immorality, and I've got nothing for you.
They just look guilty. During the Depression, and the war, the birth rate was low. After the war babies, comes the pill and abortion, and birth rates dropped.
Mostly that peskey Public Health that stopped people, mostly children, from dying.
Now they are down for economic reasons, they cost as much as ten BMWs.
We have been on the path of unsupportable population since at least 1500, the Black Death could not stop them.
The end result of increases since the last ice age and growing crops.
It wont last.
MarketAndChurch
Veteran

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
Y'know, I've always wondered: Why is it that only SMART people are using birth control???
That is a rather important question. It turns out SMART people are often educated people and our education system is infected from basement to roof by suicidal altruism. We are convinced that it is our duty as smart ethical people to sacrifice our own best interests in favor of the stupid, the lazy and the worthless.. Smart people are taught to be guilty about their clear superiority and to put on a humble face.
ruveyn
What if they reasoned that the ambitions of those who did not humble their intellect is what filled the courts of kings addicted to military campaigns or colonization, or the boardrooms of corporations raping the planet. They tie proudness to chauvinism, and have an attitude to minimize their "presence" and "foot print" as being better for the world.
That seems to be the sense that I'm getting in academia. A lot of smart people out to right man's wrongs, and if they aren't out ruining the world, their attempt to make it better makes them irrelevant.
_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.
AngelRho
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Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
The end result of increases since the last ice age and growing crops.
It wont last.
And as you have suggested we will have to mostly die off and live on nuts and berries.
ruveyn
I am, for the moment, a vegetarian. I haven't adjusted well. But I'm getting better. Had a low point Wednesday. Lunch at my church consisted of fried chicken along with fried livers and gizzards. I almost caved, having been an extreme meat-eater all my life. But beyond that, I'm holding it together.
So...nuts and berries? Bring it on! Besides, I like cold weather. I'm also pondering a 40-day water fast, currently set to coincide with the winter holiday eating season. I don't know if I'll actually go through with it, though. When the end comes, I want to be ready. It's going to be funny watching all those fatties freaking out because they've never starved a day in their lives. They'll be the first to go, of course, and I'll just be warming up my grill when they start going down.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/hea ... 57031440/1
You'll be out of place in Mississippi.
On the plus side: all of that obesity should help reduce the birth rate.
With the approaching famine that so many people are worried about,being overweight will be an advantage.I'm carrying an extra 25 lbs,this will sustain me and able me to overpower my skinnier,weaker,neighbors and take their supplies.The fattest cannibal,er,predator has the best chance.
And we have the best food down here,and we are laid back.Why hurry?Yeah,my states on the fat list.Sweet tea and coconut cream pie.mmmmmmm!
You ever try jogging in Mississippi in August?
Any time we see anyone tearing around like that in the heat down here they are either on meth,mental, or they have done something wrong.
AngelRho
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

And we have the best food down here,and we are laid back.Why hurry?Yeah,my states on the fat list.Sweet tea and coconut cream pie.mmmmmmm!
You ever try jogging in Mississippi in August?
Any time we see anyone tearing around like that in the heat down here they are either on meth,mental, or they have done something wrong.
You been stalkin' me???
