Truth about Israel-Palestine conflict

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You also have to remember that Palestinian society is deeply divided. Theres basically 3 factions just within Gaza.

I think the Hamas faction is holding out for some sort of Iranian intervention.

Yes, I did.



Face value merit is not a scientific standard.



No, that is *your* debating style.

I may know more about Islam than any other poster on WP.

Zionist. One of the few groups capable of entering land that isn't theirs, forcing the indigenous people who had been there (And promised the land in World War One since they helped the British against the Turkish Empire) out, yet somehow pretending to be the victim in everything. The IDF has such a long list of human rights abuses it is insanity that people portray them as the "Good guys". There are instances where members of the IDF and mercenary forces they hire *lure* over Palestinian children into Israel territory claiming they have things like "candy" then opening fire on them because it's legal for them to do so.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf9eJDA5MK8[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HrGoWhQnuA[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYkRF5t1dk[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dCUw9rT-bI[/youtube]No worries its only a matter of time before the US collapses Thomas81 then China will be the leading superpower! It is inevitable I am not sure what would happen to the middle east with China in charge though!

The truth about the Israel-Palestine conflict is that there is not one, singular Palestine.

The Palestinian people are being held hostage not simply because of Israeli intransigence, but also because there are two rival factions that are prepared to go to war with each other to determine who will rule a Palestinian state. And the United Nations has very conveniently poured metaphorical gasoline on that metaphorical fire.

A Palestinian State (singular) is a wholly desirable outcome for everyone in the region. Peace and stability are necessary preconditions for prosperity. But who will govern a peaceful, stable Palestine? If it is Fatah, how will they exercise control over Gaza from Ramallah? If it is Hamas, how will they govern the West Bank from Gaza City? Will either side come to the recognition that the welfare of the Palestinian people is more important than their quest for power over them?

Until someone from Palestine has the mandate to negotiate and reach agreement with Israel, and the likelihood of obtaining popular approval for that agreement from the Palestinian people, how is a Palestinian state to come about? In the face of Fatah's success in New York, will Hamas quietly back down and allow Abbas to negotiate? I think not. In the face of a successfully brokered cease fire, will Fatah give way to Hamas? Even less likely.

The best hope is that one side thoroughly trounces the other in the coming elections in both the West Bank and Gaza, and can legitimately claim to be negotiating on behalf of all of the Palestinian people. I am not holding my breath.

I am ambivalent about the UN recognition of Palestine as an observer state.

On the one hand, it could perhaps discipline Fatah to conduct itself in a more state-like manner, and to focus more on reconciliation with Israel than with Hamas.

On the other hand, If Fatah begins forming alliances in the UN general assembly with Islamic countries not recognizing Israel, that could probably cause diplomatic relations between Israel and Palestine to deteriorate even further. And it could even undermine the entire UN institution itself. Durban I, II and III have already weakened Western support for the UN, and with 3 of 5 permanent veto-wielding security council members being Western, this could immobilize the UN.

At present, it might be in the interest of the Palestinian people to delegate the mandate of negotiation with Israel to Jordan, but since that would undermine the authority of both Fatah and Hamas, I don't consider it a realistic scenario. I'm not sure Jordan would want that headache, either.

Jordan thoroughly and shamefully washed their hands of the Palestinians in 1970, and she has never looked back.

Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950, and claimed East Jerusalem as her own. With the loss of the territory in the Six Day War, the issue became academic, but it was not until 1974 that the Arab League elevated the PLO to the status of sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and destroyed the Jordanian claim to sovereignty over the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Palestinian people.

Jordan has never been an honest broker with the Palestinians, and there is no reason to believe that she could, or would be so now.

Jordan is in the unique position that it has managed to piss off just about no-one. An almost impossible feat in the Middle East. That would put Jordan in a favourable position during negotiations.

But I digress. As mentioned before, I don't consider a reliance on Jordan a realistic scenario.

The truth: Reptilian shapeshifters. /end

That's pretty much where these threads eventually end up going anyway. Why waste time getting there?

I'm going to quite blunt, if the Palestinians were pulling these shannigans of firing rockets into any country other than Israel, they would be a crater. The Israelis have actually demonstrated more restraint than I believe any other country would in a similar situation.

Possibly more restraint than is sane.
It ought to be remembered though, not every Palestinian is responsible for sending rockets into Israel. To say that all Palestinians are responsible for voting for Hamas is the same as Bin Laden saying that all Americans are legitimate targets for voting for Pro-Israeli leaders.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If it were America on the other side of the border Palestine would no longer exist it would be nothing but burning rubble and corpses!

Very probably true.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Reason being is that not only does America not tolerate that crap America tends to go overboard on retaliation to get their point across not to mess with them ever again and well as harsh at it seems it works!

You got it man