Would the world be better off if it was run by autistics?

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Would the world be better off if it was run by autistics?
Yes 33%  33%  [ 13 ]
No 55%  55%  [ 22 ]
Undecided (explain below) 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 40

thomas81
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30 Nov 2012, 9:39 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
NT thought process in politics gravitates towards self interest and careerism.

Autistic culture is more greatly centred on honesty and to the point communication. Even NT's will admit this.

Ok?

How does this prove anything about autistic politicians? An autistic politician is going to be the kind of person who will be able to elicit enough other autistics to select them for power. That will involve selecting for many of the same traits that are selected for in NT politicians. So.... I am not sure how this will change things. The nerdiest autistics are definitely going to know that applications of game-theory along with a utilitarian model may justify certain political abuses(lies, etc) to maintain power to enact social changes considered to result in good outcomes, so even if Aspies are hyper-logical deities(which they aren't), we should expect them to lie because that's what the game theory of the situation would tell them to do.

Even further, nothing said actually suggests that autistics are going to tend to be saner leaders. Once again, just look at this forum: Do you think the people on here are more likely to create good compromises? Do you think the people on here are going to be ideologically reasonable when they need to be? Is this thread even BASED upon good social scientific reasoning in the first place, or is it mostly just the self-favoring opinions of autistics without a REALLY thoughtful glance at what is needed to make society work??

I mean, let's be blunt:
1) It's not a black and white question. There is a spectrum of autistic conditions all varying in their traits.
2) To what extent will autistics be able to or willing to engage in the processes needed for a working politic? (Is there any empirical analysis on this?)
3) To what extent are existing problems actually the constraints already given to a working politic by the limits of our knowledge and the game-theory of the situation? So, politicians act as they do because they're working with constraints. Governments act as they do due to their constraints. If the nature of the actors is only a part of the problem, then changing the actors will leave a lot of the problem unsolved.
4) Could some of these issues actually hinder the success of an AS rulership? So, if NTs are a mess of half-baked heuristics, and aspies happen to missing a few of these half-baked heuristics, it doesn't mean aspies are fully baked. One possible problem is that the set of NT heuristics could be ecologically rational, so even though there are many irrationalities, the balance ends up creating a successfully working organism and society. But... aspies don't necessarily have to have an ecologically rational set of tendencies(our lower successes in certain areas could be evidence we don't have this), so.... we could actually be worse off. NT careerism and self-interest could be what keeps them away from outright ideological extremism, but aspies, lacking these traits, may actually be honest politicians and try to drive the world into the ground in pursuit of the abstractions that ordinary politicians may avoid due to the pragmatism of careerism.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rationalit ... ationality


NT politicians and business leaders are already driving the world into the ground through their pragmatist careerism.

If the earth is going to be driven into the ground, it may as well be in the pursuit of a just cause.



Fnord
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30 Nov 2012, 9:42 pm

No.

likely, the NTs would revolt against their oppressive masters for banning loud music, dirty looks, aggressive gestures, eye contact, weird smells, rough textures, and flashing lights, while forcing model-perfect NTs to date, support, and have sex with Autistics at a moment's notice.


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Misslizard
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30 Nov 2012, 9:46 pm

I'm on board to get rid of weird smells and flashing lights.And sticky things.Ewwwwwwwww. :lol:



Awesomelyglorious
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30 Nov 2012, 9:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:
NT politicians and business leaders are already driving the world into the ground through their pragmatist careerism.

If the earth is going to be driven into the ground, it may as well be in the pursuit of a just cause.

Right, better to die quick than slowly. :roll: :roll: :roll:

1) You don't have sufficient evidence that the current framework will die in the next century, and we definitely don't have sufficient evidence to know what the world will be like 100 years from now. But if we have idealists drive us into the ground then we will die quickly. That's not a good option. If we're going to die, I'd rather die slowly as I'd rather have the death that maximized human utility.
2) If that's the case, then they've been driving the world into the ground for what? 10000 years? Whenever you'd want to consider civilization to have begun, and if their "driving the world into the ground" has taken so long, and taken us so far, then... maybe the claim that they're going to do it really is a bit overblown, as their leadership is definitely quite compatible with wondrous things.
3) "NT's are *so* bad" doesn't make me much more confident in AS leadership, as both the claim is overblown, and the fundamental problem is still not addressed.

Once again, to reiterate: I AM NOT AGAINST AUTISTICS IN POLITICS. I am against simplistic thinking on the issue. Autism is a spectrum. Some autistics may end up being good at the job. Certainly many would probably be good as advisers to politicians.



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30 Nov 2012, 10:01 pm

i would make hugs & cuddles mandatory :D


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thomas81
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01 Dec 2012, 11:08 am

Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?



ruveyn
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01 Dec 2012, 1:15 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn



thomas81
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01 Dec 2012, 1:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn


I think those aspies are selling themselves short. NTs are as a group, unfocussed, ignorant, selfish and centred around social banality. They hold us back.



abacacus
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01 Dec 2012, 1:32 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn


I think those aspies are selling themselves short. NTs are as a group, unfocussed, ignorant, selfish and centred around social banality. They hold us back.


Take a look around PPR and explain how Aspies/Huffers are any better.


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ruveyn
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01 Dec 2012, 1:33 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn


I think those aspies are selling themselves short. NTs are as a group, unfocussed, ignorant, selfish and centred around social banality. They hold us back.


You make daily use of products and devices invented by NTs. By and large you are fed, housed, clothed and cured of your ills by NTs. NTs have been the most populous segment of mankind. Our best and our worst, for the most part are NTs.
Do you think Thomas Edison and Nikols Tesla held you back? Do you think the likes of Richard Feynman held you back. It was said of Richard Feynman, he is another Dirac, but this time human.

ruveyn

ruveyn



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01 Dec 2012, 1:42 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn


I think those aspies are selling themselves short. NTs are as a group, unfocussed, ignorant, selfish and centred around social banality. They hold us back.


Not all NT's can be described that way....and what makes you think people with autism are constantly focused? Not to mention there are ignorant and selfish aspies as well. I think the us vs them mentality is what holds people back.


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thomas81
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01 Dec 2012, 1:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Got to say im equally surprised and dissapointed that the 'no's' are winning.

Why are there so many self hating autistics?


If there were a gold medal for conclusion leaping, you would be the winner. Could it not be that some autistics, particularly aspies recognize their own limitations. That is not self hatred, that is good sense and modesty.

ruveyn


I think those aspies are selling themselves short. NTs are as a group, unfocussed, ignorant, selfish and centred around social banality. They hold us back.


You make daily use of products and devices invented by NTs. By and large you are fed, housed, clothed and cured of your ills by NTs. NTs have been the most populous segment of mankind. Our best and our worst, for the most part are NTs.
Do you think Thomas Edison and Nikols Tesla held you back? Do you think the likes of Richard Feynman held you back. It was said of Richard Feynman, he is another Dirac, but this time human.

ruveyn

ruveyn


I don't know about the rest but i'm fairly sure Tesla was aspie or at least had PDD traits.

As for NT geniuses, they're in the minority. Aspies and autistics have a positively disproportionate number of skilled hands as a group.

In rather the same way you claimed that jews are superior.



ruveyn
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01 Dec 2012, 2:02 pm

thomas81 wrote:

As for NT geniuses, they're in the minority. Aspies and autistics have a positively disproportionate number of skilled hands as a group.



While there are some notable Aspies in the halls of science and industry, the world of successful engineers, inventors, scientists and industrialists are still mostly NT. I am sure Apies occur in the technical areas of occupation in greater numbers than their occurrence in the population, but still NTs predominate. After all, the word is 99 percent NT. Normals are as diverse a group as one can imagine. There are good ones, bad ones, brilliant ones and not so brilliant ones. It is simply bigoted to tar them with the same brush. I am an Aspie. I married an NT. I have 4 children one of whom showed early on some OCD and Aspie traits. The most successful of my children, my daughter, is an NT down to the genetic level and became a brilliant toy designer.

ruveyn



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01 Dec 2012, 3:45 pm

Edison had trouble early in school,one teacher described him as "addled."I would not doubt he was on the spectrum.Dos'nt he still hold the record for most patents?



Awesomelyglorious
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01 Dec 2012, 4:13 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Edison had trouble early in school,one teacher described him as "addled."I would not doubt he was on the spectrum.Dos'nt he still hold the record for most patents?

I really strongly doubt he was on the spectrum.

I mean, Edison was a driven businessman and also pretty well known for the comment promising Tesla a large sum of money for solving a problem, and then blowing it off as Tesla not understanding American humor. That's probably not a sign of an AS level of social skills or an AS way of thinking.



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01 Dec 2012, 4:24 pm

..



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 04 Dec 2012, 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.