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Hamas in their very own words, by their leader

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MCalavera
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11 Dec 2012, 7:46 pm

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

I'm just making judgements based on the current evidence, not on any emotional or political bias.



thomas81
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11 Dec 2012, 7:48 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Not sure what you're trying to say here.

I'm just making judgements based on the current evidence, not on any emotional or political bias.


point is that the majority of people in Europe at least, believe Israelis to have the most dangerous attitude.

that is even being published by an ultra right zionist rag.

Just saw this as well on facebook, Palestinian teenagers are being abused in Israeli prisons.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/adr ... nian-teens


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MCalavera
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11 Dec 2012, 7:50 pm

Doesn't matter much what the polls say.



thomas81
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11 Dec 2012, 8:02 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Doesn't matter much what the polls say.


what does matter if polls don't? How do you guage how dangerous a mind is anyway? Its all very abstract.

Perceptions of morality are all a matter of personal perspective and subjectiveness depending on the conditioning of the individual. You can say Islam is the most dangerous philosophy all you want, it doesnt make it any truer nor does it mean the greatest margin of people agree with you.

Truth of the matter is, we were'nt having all of these problems with the islamic world until the british mandate. If the west had come up with a solution short of arming the irgun to the teeth and promising most of the region to the jews we wouldnt be having these disagreements with the muslim world.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 11 Dec 2012, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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11 Dec 2012, 8:02 pm

MCalavera wrote:
It's easy to just talk, but try to think of yourself as a Palestinian and see where they're coming from.


If that's their mindset, then they would probably understand the Israelis wiping them out.

Fortunately for them (and everyone else), Israel is a good deal more humane.

thomas81: Ah, Gaddafi. The dead IRA supporter. May he rot in hell.



thomas81
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11 Dec 2012, 8:04 pm

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thomas81: Ah, Gaddafi. The dead IRA supporter. May he rot in hell.


Yes, long live his NATO backed successor -the one with uncle sams hand rammed up his backside.

The NTC had no greater democratic precedence to rule Libya than Gadaffi did. Otherwise they wouldnt have needed British help to win, would they?


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ruveyn
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11 Dec 2012, 8:07 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:

thomas81: Ah, Gaddafi. The dead IRA supporter. May he rot in hell.


Yes, long live his NATO backed successor -the one with uncle sams hand rammed up his backside.

The NTC had no greater democratic precedence to rule Libya than Gadaffi did. Otherwise they wouldnt have needed British help to win, would they?


Libya is ungovernable except by a murdering tyrant.

ruveyn



thomas81
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11 Dec 2012, 8:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:

thomas81: Ah, Gaddafi. The dead IRA supporter. May he rot in hell.


Yes, long live his NATO backed successor -the one with uncle sams hand rammed up his backside.

The NTC had no greater democratic precedence to rule Libya than Gadaffi did. Otherwise they wouldnt have needed British help to win, would they?


Libya is ungovernable except by a murdering tyrant.

ruveyn


Thanks to the adventures of the Royal Air Force in Libya, Al Quaeda now have a greater power stake, while Tripoli is slowly becoming a dustbowl compared to its former self.


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Tequila
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11 Dec 2012, 8:11 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Yes, long live his NATO backed successor -the one with uncle sams hand rammed up his backside.

The NTC had no greater democratic precedence to rule Libya than Gadaffi did. Otherwise they wouldnt have needed British help to win, would they?


The two presidents seem to have links to the Muslim Brotherhood - well, that will turn out well. You hoping for an Islamist takeover then? That will go well on their way to making Egypt and Libya truly Islamic. Oh, by the way, we need to dress the women in niqab and drive out/kill all the Christians and liberals first. Allahu Akbar.

I never said they did. If I had my way, the UK would never have gotten involved in the Libya conflict. The UK should be aiming to protect and defend the UK's territory and little else in my view.



ruveyn
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11 Dec 2012, 8:14 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Thanks to the adventures of the Royal Air Force in Libya, Al Quaeda now have a greater power stake, while Tripoli is slowly becoming a dustbowl compared to its former self.


I suspect it is the Libyan's themselves that are the cause of their woes, as well as the victims. Very few Muslim domains can be governed by Muslims humanely and reasonably. As soon as the Muslim fundamentalists gain power, it is all over.

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11 Dec 2012, 8:16 pm

Tequila wrote:
The two presidents seem to have links to the Muslim Brotherhood - well, that will turn out well. You hoping for an Islamist takeover then? That will go well on their way to making Egypt and Libya truly Islamic. Oh, by the way, we need to dress the women in niqab and drive out/kill all the Christians and liberals first. Allahu Akbar.

.


I am hoping for no such thing. I wish they didn't kill Gadaffi in the first place. Gadaffi was a Socialist first, and a muslim second. At the very least, he deserved a trial under international supervision like Saddam. As chequered as his politics were, Gadaffi was a veritable sink plug that was sustaining a modicum of national solidarity and preventing a whirlpool of chaos and further inter tribal conflict. I really do not see a return to prosperity for Libya anymore, I really feel sorry for the people who wanted no part of the NTC coup de etat.


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ruveyn
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11 Dec 2012, 8:23 pm

thomas81 wrote:

I am hoping for no such thing. I wish they didn't kill Gadaffi in the first place. Gadaffi was a Socialist first, and a muslim second. At the very least, he deserved a trial under international supervision like Saddam. As chequered as his politics were, Gadaffi was a veritable sink plug that was sustaining a modicum of national solidarity and preventing a whirlpool of chaos and further inter tribal conflict. I really do not see a return to prosperity for Libya anymore, I really feel sorry for the people who wanted no part of the NTC coup de etat.


See. You are describing the Libyans just being themselves. In a way, you agree with me.

ruveyn



MCalavera
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11 Dec 2012, 9:34 pm

thomas81 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Doesn't matter much what the polls say.


what does matter if polls don't? How do you guage how dangerous a mind is anyway? Its all very abstract.

Perceptions of morality are all a matter of personal perspective and subjectiveness depending on the conditioning of the individual. You can say Islam is the most dangerous philosophy all you want, it doesnt make it any truer nor does it mean the greatest margin of people agree with you.

Truth of the matter is, we were'nt having all of these problems with the islamic world until the british mandate. If the west had come up with a solution short of arming the irgun to the teeth and promising most of the region to the jews we wouldnt be having these disagreements with the muslim world.


I'm just going with what I'm witnessing on the news and such. I admit my perceptions aren't perfect, but I do believe my mind is clear enough to make a fair judgement.

And it doesn't matter what the reasons were from before, the outcome is what really matters at the end of the day.

As for polls, I don't take the majority's opinion too seriously. If the polls say the majority believe in God, what does that prove? That God must therefore exist?



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12 Dec 2012, 12:52 pm

Tequila wrote:
Well, we have a choice between an entity that refuses to recognise the right of Israel to exist and would use a Palestinian state to further its cause of destroying Israel and will continue to glorify violence or another entity that wants Israel annihilated and all Jews in the world murdered.

The removal of Israeli troops from Gaza has not stemmed the violence one iota. On the contrary, it has increased it. The Israelis would have to be frankly almost suicidally stupid to agree to any more concessions with people like Fatah or genocidal jihadists like Hamas at the present time.


Well, even by that calculus, Fatah is the lesser of two evils.

In truth, the West Bank is relatively prosperous. Its institutions of government are considerably more democratic and transparent than any in region except for Israel's and perhaps Lebanon's. And Fatah and Israel have previously negotiated most of the detail of a land swap for the establishment of Palestine.

Are the perfect? No. But they are the best option for peaceful coexistence.


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Tequila
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12 Dec 2012, 1:10 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Its institutions of government are considerably more democratic and transparent than any in region except for Israel's and perhaps Lebanon's.


Abu Mazen is currently in his ninth-year of a four-year term, corruption is absolutely endemic within the Palestinian Authority...

Judea and Samaria might be a better place to live than Gaza, but both of them are way behind the standard of living enjoyed in Israel. And, anyway, Israel actually controls quite a bit of the West Bank still.



Tequila
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12 Dec 2012, 1:11 pm

visagrunt wrote:
But they are the best option for peaceful coexistence.


The organisation that has denied Israel's existence from, erm, day one?