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Wayne Lapierre wants blacklist of mentally ill

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XFilesGeek
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23 Dec 2012, 9:04 am

auntblabby wrote:
if we can send people to the moon, we surely can fix our mass murder problem. it is a matter of political will.


I think rockets are more reliable and predictable than the human brain.


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0_equals_true
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23 Dec 2012, 9:28 am

ruveyn wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
I told everyone here the NRA sucks.


Why? Because they defend the Second Amendment which is the Law of the Land?

And if only cops and soldiers had guns the rest of us would soon be slaves if we are not already.

ruveyn


The 2nd Amendment doesn't actually cover this scenario as discussed here
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5110183.html#5110183

It also doesn't cover self defense against animals, which is one I left off.

There may be other laws that cover this, but the point is the 2nd Amendment isn't the Law that covers all the bases.



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23 Dec 2012, 12:34 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
I told everyone here the NRA sucks.


Why? Because they defend the Second Amendment which is the Law of the Land?

And if only cops and soldiers had guns the rest of us would soon be slaves if we are not already.

ruveyn


The 2nd Amendment doesn't actually cover this scenario as discussed here
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5110183.html#5110183

It also doesn't cover self defense against animals, which is one I left off.

There may be other laws that cover this, but the point is the 2nd Amendment isn't the Law that covers all the bases.


this is wrong



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23 Dec 2012, 2:38 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

There may be other laws that cover this, but the point is the 2nd Amendment isn't the Law that covers all the bases.


The 9 th amendment covers the ground. Among other rights we possess is the right to defend ourselves by whatever means is necessary. That is THE basic number one right. The right to preserve your life or that of your family. Without that right nothing else matters.

Every philosopher on Rights agrees with this point with the possible exception of the now dead Mahatma Ghandi. Who was a superfragile calloused mystic plagued with halitosis.

ruveyn



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Dec 2012, 2:50 pm

People want to use mental illness to deflect from the real issue. Lots of violent people walking the streets. People do not want to do some self reflection and soul searching (meaning they could be one of the violent) so they are going to scapegoat mental illness and say they are responsible for it all. Typical of humanity.



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23 Dec 2012, 2:58 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
People want to use mental illness to deflect from the real issue. Lots of violent people walking the streets. People do not want to do some self reflection and soul searching (meaning they could be one of the violent) so they are going to scapegoat mental illness and say they are responsible for it all. Typical of humanity.


One person's mental illness isn't relevant to everyone else's mental illness but the sickness of these killers are certainly relevant to their crimes. The actions of these killers are their own whatever may of caused it.



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23 Dec 2012, 3:02 pm

It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.



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23 Dec 2012, 3:12 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.



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23 Dec 2012, 3:14 pm

What a terrible idea. mentally ill people have the right to own guns, there right should only be taken away if they harm someone else with them



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Dec 2012, 3:16 pm

Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.

What is your solution for the mentally ill?



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23 Dec 2012, 3:38 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.

What is your solution for the mentally ill?


That's a tough question. My mother has worked in the field, she tells me there are many people that are walking the streets that shouldn't and there simply isn't anything they can legally do. You can hold a person for like 72 hours or whatever but that's about it. Putting people in institutions has it's problems obviously but leaving these sick individuals to their own devices isn't better. For lot of them that means prison or the homeless shelter, the only time people seem to notice is when some individual does some unthinkable crime .



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23 Dec 2012, 3:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.

What is your solution for the mentally ill?


That's a tough question. My mother has worked in the field, she tells me there are many people that are walking the streets that shouldn't and there simply isn't anything they can legally do. You can hold a person for like 72 hours or whatever but that's about it. Putting people in institutions has it's problems obviously but leaving these sick individuals to their own devices isn't better. For lot of them that means prison or the homeless shelter, the only time people seem to notice is when some individual does some unthinkable crime .


Maybe more help for them would be a good idea...I mean maybe constantly wanting to lock them away in institutions to keep them off the streets or prison isn't much of a solution simply institutionalizing mentally ill people wouldn't help. Less stigma and maybe more help availability or at least more accessible help so its not like fighting an uphill battle just to get therapy and even more fighting if you need more help than that.

I doubt making it easier to forcibly institutionalize people is simply a step backwards and in my opinion being worried people are looking for an excuse to lock me up for being mentally ill(which is getting to be quite a concern) just makes me want to avoid people and society even more and avoid trusting anyone at all...I imagine I am not the only mentally ill person who feels that way about this whole 'Opress the mentally ill before they kill you.' bandwagon.


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23 Dec 2012, 3:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Every philosopher on Rights agrees with this point with the possible exception of the now dead Mahatma Ghandi.

What about Jesus? Or Buddha? Or MLK?



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23 Dec 2012, 4:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.

What is your solution for the mentally ill?


That's a tough question. My mother has worked in the field, she tells me there are many people that are walking the streets that shouldn't and there simply isn't anything they can legally do. You can hold a person for like 72 hours or whatever but that's about it. Putting people in institutions has it's problems obviously but leaving these sick individuals to their own devices isn't better. For lot of them that means prison or the homeless shelter, the only time people seem to notice is when some individual does some unthinkable crime .

I disagree with locking anyone up inside an institution but think more outreach and community centers might help. I believe in fundamental freedoms for every human. Someone who is not free can never be happy.



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23 Dec 2012, 8:13 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's just a way to take attention off of the real problem imo. How do you get a culture to turn away from violence to solve problems is the question that needs answering but instead they will endlessly think of ways they can punish the mentally ill.


You shouldn't punish everybody for the crimes of a single person, I agree but there definite problems with how we handle mental illness in this country.

What is your solution for the mentally ill?


That's a tough question. My mother has worked in the field, she tells me there are many people that are walking the streets that shouldn't and there simply isn't anything they can legally do. You can hold a person for like 72 hours or whatever but that's about it. Putting people in institutions has it's problems obviously but leaving these sick individuals to their own devices isn't better. For lot of them that means prison or the homeless shelter, the only time people seem to notice is when some individual does some unthinkable crime .

I disagree with locking anyone up inside an institution but think more outreach and community centers might help. I believe in fundamental freedoms for every human. Someone who is not free can never be happy.


I agree in general and I am mindful of what my fate could of been in a different time but there are some people that profoundly ill that have been left out in the cold literally and figuratively by deinstutionalization. Many of them find themselves in prison or become homeless and unfortunately some become a danger to themselves or others.



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23 Dec 2012, 8:22 pm

Treat them but don't take their freedom. Even when you have nothing at all at least you have that.