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The "Why do you need?" fallacy. (Re: gun control)

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ModusPonens
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09 Jan 2013, 7:12 pm

Tequila wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
What needs to be answered is how many inocent people die a year by fire arms in a country with gun control (say Japan) and how many inocent people die a year in the US? That's the question relevant to a government. If the difference was little, maybe your trap argument would work, but it isn't.


You could also argue the rate of deaths in a country like Switzerland versus the amount of deaths and murders in the U.S.

Face facts: it ain't the guns that are the problem but the a**holes who use them.



That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an a**hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

Another country? Australia.



techstepgenr8tion
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09 Jan 2013, 7:14 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

Wow...and people say conservatives are cynical about human ethical capacity. 8O



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09 Jan 2013, 7:16 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Tequila wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
What needs to be answered is how many inocent people die a year by fire arms in a country with gun control (say Japan) and how many inocent people die a year in the US? That's the question relevant to a government. If the difference was little, maybe your trap argument would work, but it isn't.


You could also argue the rate of deaths in a country like Switzerland versus the amount of deaths and murders in the U.S.

Face facts: it ain't the guns that are the problem but the a**holes who use them.
Ding ding ding ding ding we have a winner. You take the guns away you will still see mass murders in America on the news. It wont make a difference.


Maybe the ring is just saying it's the end of round 1.

Anyway, an interesting fact you might want to know. In the same day of the Newtown tragedy, a man in China entered a school with a knife to kill children. Can you guess how many children died? No? Zero. Ring your bell again please.



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09 Jan 2013, 7:17 pm

Still waiting for someone to tell me the way to deal with a rabid animal besides a gun.



ModusPonens
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09 Jan 2013, 7:19 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

Wow...and people say conservatives are cynical about human ethical capacity. 8O


Are you familiar with this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment



techstepgenr8tion
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09 Jan 2013, 7:22 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

Wow...and people say conservatives are cynical about human ethical capacity. 8O


Are you familiar with this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I've run into things like that, didn't remember it by name but.... it comes closer to making Alex Jones' point about the lubrication and ease of going against one's deepest morals for self-preservation when your higher ups all have guns, you have a gun, and the people you're rounding up don't. I don't think most people mean ill, but I also tend to think its somewhat of a minority of us who can turn into heroes on demand.



Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 09 Jan 2013, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jacoby
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09 Jan 2013, 7:23 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
Tequila wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
What needs to be answered is how many inocent people die a year by fire arms in a country with gun control (say Japan) and how many inocent people die a year in the US? That's the question relevant to a government. If the difference was little, maybe your trap argument would work, but it isn't.


You could also argue the rate of deaths in a country like Switzerland versus the amount of deaths and murders in the U.S.

Face facts: it ain't the guns that are the problem but the a**holes who use them.



That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

Another country? Australia.


What about Jamaica and Uganda? Guns are totally banned there, you plan on living there someday?

Spree shootings are statistically insignificant. The vast majority of violent crime happens in our crumbling inner cities and are the direct result of the racist War On Drugs and the plague of poverty. The ***holes are our own government who murder at a rate that would make any tin pot dictator blush.



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09 Jan 2013, 7:49 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

Quote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

I’m an a**hole 24/7 and I have lots of guns readily at my disposal. I've never killed anyone using a gun or by any other means.


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09 Jan 2013, 7:53 pm

Are you comparing US with third world countries? You're being modest in the ambitions for your own country.



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09 Jan 2013, 7:55 pm

Raptor wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
Quote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

I’m an as*hole 24/7 and I have lots of guns readily at my disposal. I've never killed anyone using a gun or by any other means.


The worrd a**hole was context dependent to the post in which it first appeared. Please at least give arguments that make sense.



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09 Jan 2013, 7:57 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
Quote:
That would only work if people were divided into those who can't turn into a**holes and those who can. And the fact is that almost everybody can turn into an as*hole momentarily. If at that moment one has a gun, an innocent might die.

I’m an as*hole 24/7 and I have lots of guns readily at my disposal. I've never killed anyone using a gun or by any other means.


The worrd as*hole was context dependent to the post in which it first appeared. Please at least give arguments that make sense.


My reply made more sense than yours did....


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09 Jan 2013, 7:57 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Tequila wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
What needs to be answered is how many inocent people die a year by fire arms in a country with gun control (say Japan) and how many inocent people die a year in the US? That's the question relevant to a government. If the difference was little, maybe your trap argument would work, but it isn't.


You could also argue the rate of deaths in a country like Switzerland versus the amount of deaths and murders in the U.S.

Face facts: it ain't the guns that are the problem but the a**holes who use them.
Ding ding ding ding ding we have a winner. You take the guns away you will still see mass murders in America on the news. It wont make a difference.


Maybe the ring is just saying it's the end of round 1.

Anyway, an interesting fact you might want to know. In the same day of the Newtown tragedy, a man in China entered a school with a knife to kill children. Can you guess how many children died? No? Zero. Ring your bell again please.
The thing with China is china has much harsher laws also further more a larger more civilized populous.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqIycDNvAS0[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3-BnVngMis[/youtube]


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Last edited by AspieOtaku on 09 Jan 2013, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ModusPonens
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09 Jan 2013, 7:59 pm

By the way, who here thinks any kind of wheapon should be sold to american citizens, including nuclear missiles, so I don't waste my time arguing with such people?



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09 Jan 2013, 8:09 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
By the way, who here thinks any kind of wheapon should be sold to american citizens, including nuclear missiles, so I don't waste my time arguing with such people?


:roll:
This again.........sigh.
There is more than gun related laws regulating nuclear missiles.
We'll start with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and move right into hazmat regulation....
Why are we wasting our time with such people?
:roll:


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09 Jan 2013, 8:26 pm

Again you misinterpreted what I said. This isn't going to work if I have to write two posts for each thing I say.

I saw another day a member defending that people in general should have access to nuclear wheapons. I prefer that my time be well used and not wasted on these people. I'm not assuming that every gun lover defends this.

But, if you want to take it that way, we can go there: why do you think that a nuclear wheapon is not acceptable acording to the constitution, but an assault rifle is? If you don't feel inclined to respond, then just ignore.



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09 Jan 2013, 8:31 pm

Nuclear weaponry is off the scale of consideration. The fact that you keep harping on something so irrational makes me wonder about you....


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