The end of an empire

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Just more right wing propaganda.

The mere fact that Americans are able to have conversations like the ones in this topic and NOT fear government persecution or drastic measures taken against them is proof that this country is in much better shape than most of the world outside of it.

The problem is getting people to move past the "talk" stage - and into "action".

Really, what is giving up hope going to do, when the options for positive action are potentially limitless?

My point is - the best way to express feelings of discontent over any wrongs in the world is to be a part of the solution.

With that said, America has been through much worse situations than this before, and it survived. It survived because people took action instead of merely talking. If anything is going to kill it, it's the inactivity of the citizenship - because the government can only do so much when average citizens outnumber politicians astronomically. Americans are average citizens who have the option to take action and not risk prison or execution. Why the hell aren't more people taking advantage of that?

Actually, no. We have so much technological innovation that a lot of gadgets get better and cheaper all the time. At the Black Friday specials, I bought a 50-inch LCD TV for $250. Twenty years ago, that would have been the price of a bulky 19-inch CRT television.

Housing is a lot cheaper than it was a few years ago.

Gasoline is getter cheaper, while cars are getting more fuel-efficient.

Everything is not doom and gloom.

1080p is obsolete so that's why you got it for $250.

1080p is roughly double the definition of my cell phone. TVs are just another way to plug you in. housing is cheaper where? I am looking at 800 a month for a room in a house. gas is still expensive here. cheaper than a few months ago sure, but still insane compared to less than 10 years ago.

no, not everything is doom and gloom and thank you for a dissenting opinion, but the recovery and improvement are short lasting at best, and compared to prior years, are pathetic.

Some things used to be better in the past, but some things are better now. Many technologies have grown in capability and dropped in price. For example, computers. When I got into the computer business, which was back in 1958, one hour time on an IBM 704 used to be billed out at $800.00 an hour! That is 800 1959 dollars which is equivalent to over $10,000 current dollars. In the mean time for under 500 current dollars you can by a lap top computer which is 10,000 times (at least) more capable.

It is getting tough to find work. For a number of reasons. Mostly because there are people in the world who can do run of the mill jobs just as well as Americans who are willing to do those jobs, but at one fifth or one tenth the wages. That is pretty hard to compete against.

There is a contradiction in the system of labor for wages. The aggregate wages paid to workers cannot clear the market of the goods and services produces. In short there will be production of stuff that cannot be bought, even though the quality is adequate. Such surplus stuff might eventually be given away as an act of charity, but most likely it will be scrapped to create an artificial scarcity.

During the Great Depression, dairy farmers were pouring hundreds of gallons of milk into the ground and burning grain because the prices had fall so low they were attempting to create a scarcity to keep the prices up. This is utter insanity, particularly since there were hungry people who could very well have used the stuff that was destroyed.

ruveyn

economies will forge on
watch the weather and planet
volcanoes will come alive

By the way, the U.S. was never an empire in the way the Rome and Britain were. We had a short period of external imperialism between 1898 (the war with Spain) and the end of WWII when the U.S. took an anti-colonial position. That comes to about fifty years which historically is an eye-blink.

Since the end of WW 2 the U.S. has not conquered and held a hectare outside of its legal boundaries. We have fought wars, we did not conquer and possess where we fought. Which raises the question: why did we fight in the first place?

ruveyn

To take the power out of the hands of special interest groups and place it in the hands of all the people, where it belongs.

There is no group in Washington you'll get that out of. Even if you found the right kind of pure-hearted libertarian or small government conservative who was willing to chase that issue down with religious zeal they'd still be one branch of three, they'd have Senate and House against them, they'd have the media against them, and they'd be forced into lame-duck presidencies which might last 4 years at best. Even that is assuming they were able to get into the primary and get media coverage outside of "This man/woman has one message to the poor: die fast" or "This man/woman wants to take away your reproductive rights!".

you are correct. The united states is not an empire... it is a territory.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A[/youtube]

So why do I not feel enslaved. I do what I want, go where I wish and say anything it damned well pleases me to say.

ruveyn

Lighten up!

i do not believe that the world will descend into catastrophic financial collapse.

the value of money is merely notional. when the notional value of money becomes absurd, then people (those in power) will make exceptions to their notions if they will result in global disintegration.

at this time, we see delegations of labor and production to the countries who will work for the least amount of pay, but those countries will experience a rise in living standards as a result, and inflation will ensure that they wind up charging as much as the western countries for their labor, and then production will move to poorer countries yet again where the same process of elevated living standards will again happen.

if i look at china, i can see that about 30 years ago, most chinese people lived a in a state of substistance. people that toiled all day to produce their evening meal were very willing to work in a factory all day for a small amount more than the value of their evening meal because it was a step up. the local people who were the administrators of the factories who used such cheap labor were paid much more than their laborers, and they could afford more. many entrepreneurs and smart local business men formed conglomerates to capitalize on the guaranteed work that would be in demand from western countries from their factories that they built.

before long, the amount of people in china who could be considered as wealthy as their american counterparts flourished, and the standard of living in china for the executives caused prices to rise for their food and other basic necessities.

this means that the wages paid to workers had to rise so they could afford to stay alive and continue to work in the factories in a society that could sell food for a greater price due to the increased demand from people who could afford higher prices.

as a result, the advantages of using impoverished people in poor countries as a source of cheap labor is automatically eroded over time, and those people become similarly paid to the workers in the countries who outsourced their labor to those countries in the first place.

eventually china's workers will need to be payed a commensurate salary so that they can afford to buy the goods that they need to stay alive (the prices of which rise relative to the economic advantage of their administrators who can afford higher prices), otherwise they will fail.

india maybe the next economic powerhouse in the world because china is almost exhausted of people who will work for a salary that can not feed their families in the new economic structure of their country that the exploitation of their cheap labor has enabled.

after india, it may be places in africa that become the focus of labor for the richer countries (which by that time will include india), and the same process will happen there as well.

if the worlds population does not grow very much from now on, then it is conceivable that every country on earth will have it's period of economic boom due to them being the cheapest place on earth to produce goods.

when cheap labor is exhausted and no longer available, then everyone will be able to afford what they need because the world will not simply say "i give up! i may as well die because i can not make extra profit from poor people".

greedy people will eventually become more pragmatic and be thankful that they can afford to live comfortably rather than exuberantly unless they are insane.


the value of money is notional, and it is controlled by greed. ironically, greed will be the force that lifts the world out of poverty because it will suck on every source of poverty for it's profits, and thus raise them out of poverty.

who know what life will be like in 300 years (the time frame i am considering).

it is sure that if everyone can pay $50 for a loaf of bread except for one forlorn place in poverty, then that place can not survive unless it is given enough money to do so.

the "good times" of exploitation and filthy wealth imbalances will diminish as every country is lifted out of poverty purely because the exploiters must fuel who they exploit until they move on to the next harvest ground.

one day, there will be no one in the world who will be required to accept pittances for their efforts, because one day, the last of the poorest workers will be lifted into a world of affordability. it is inevitable if you think about it.

From my Oppinion its just going back to normal. I dont see it that bad. From the view of my parents generation it seems bad. They were used, that everyone could find a job easily, and having a job meant having money for two holidays a year and so and so on. For them its hard to understand that its not unusual that you need 6 months to find a normal job and have to take every work you can find meanwhile. And they are always caring for us, because we cannot afford holidays. (So we could, but instead we are renewing our house. In earlier days, you could have both.) So from their oppinion everythings gone pretty bad. Specially for my parents in law, because they have a wealthy family. For them my partner and I are "poor", only because my partner and I have to plan how we spent our money

But when I see it from my personal view: I have a job. Its not good, but its not bad either. So no boss caring for me, but also no boss trying to cheat on me. I have a standard medical insurance. So no private hospital with sexy nurses for me, but if i got hurt, i get the medical attention I need. My income doesnt allow me luxury, but it allows me to keep some money, which we spent for our family plans (renewing the house and so on) as long as we are willing to work on our own, and still i can keep some money for hobbies. (1-2 books, or sometimes going to restaurant).

I think 98% of the world would say that they would be happy changing my life with me. And still everyone around us tells me how terribble everything should be, that we are so poor, everythings so bad, and if I dont feel that way, its because I do not understand things. O_o My parents in law seemed to be really troubled, because it seems to them, that we could not afford to have children. I agree, no money for Benetton T-Shirts, new cloths according to the new seasons fashion two times a year (My mother in law even got angry with me one time, when she asked me, when i bought new cloths the last time, and I told her it was about a year ago, because until then I didnt need anything new....well the idiot that I am forgot about the important existence of fashion, changing every three months. -.-), 3 barbies a month or other collectible toys, a new computer every year. But enough money for good quality clothing fitting to the weather without a brandname on it, enough money for playstuff that is for playing instead of gathering and collecting, for normal healthy food, enough money to buy a used computer from a person who wants to buy a new one every 1-2 years and so on.

So absolutely enough for anything needed and some not needed but usefull things. And for them its horror. But going back a generation to our grandparents its the opposite: They fully understand. If i have to decide who will have more knowledge about problems and crisis, whom should I trust: My parents in law who never had any problems and who tell me that everything is terribble? Or my grandparents, that survived the war and that tell to focus on the important things? (Having a home, having warm clothing, the possibility for the children to visit a good school?, ...) From my oppinion we are only becoming normal again. The way we lived before, the wasting of ressources and material for fashion and other useless stuff will stop.

And we do have enough ressources that everyone would have enough, if we are willing to share. If we are not willing, because of not willing to learn anything from history, there will be conflicts. Our desicion.

Humans only occupy 0.5% of the planets surface
We have not maxed out at 8billion humans
Correctly managed
Soils and oceans can feed 1000billion?
But using fuels, overeating and consumerism
Is not sustainable
Children and prolific breeding are sustainable
if food is locally sourced
Screw the other animals